Blah Blah

Trains and buses will be the perfect space for transmitting Covid when the cold and flu season hits. Something will have to done to enforce compliance in my opinion.

TE44 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Are you reading the Neil Fergusons papers afrom > Imperial College Blah Blah. Are you prepared to > put peoples mental health at risk, peoples > livelyhood, make peoples last days on this planet > hell. 650,000 deaths a year worldwide > From flu, increase yearly despite vaccines. "Those > expert studies are the reason people get care you > need", open your eyes, have you got any older > family in care homes. Your so concerned about > debunking people who have different experiences, > views, you cant see past your own importance, oops > sorry i mean the experts you follow. What a > perfect world we would have with all these experts > that are never wrong, that is if its the experts > you are reading. Nope, I am not letting you get away with this nonsense. I just gave you a clue, in that my job requires a certain level of medical education and continuous reading of new peer reviewed research. You are out of your depth. I just gave you EVIDENCE that suicide rates were down, by a sizeable margin in the first three months of lockdown. You are making assumptions when you should be waiting for the facts. The figures for the second three months seem to be heading the same way. Anecdotal local experience is not representative of anything. That is why I dismiss it. You have to look at the facts overall. And from there, local anomalies can be investigated. You have presented no evidence of anything. Just a load of easily debunked nonsense from cranks that share your conspiracist world view. Yes there are indeed half a million flu deaths globally every year on average. 80 percent of them though are people who did not have the vaccine. But you are offering this against potentially 40 million dying from Covid. So you still are making irrelevant comparisons. I ask you again, how many people dying from Covid is too many? I keep asking you the question. You keep refusing to answer it.

I just saw it. Boris looked like the kid trying to avoid answering a question from the teacher at the back of the class. Slumped in his chair, trying to look as small as possible. The body language said it all.

I think you'll find TE44 that there are different protocols at the moment that are the discretion of a hospital and their staff. Before anyone can go near a highly infectious patient, they have to be put into full protection PPE, and it is not always practical to do that for non essential medical staff let alone relatives. You just have no idea what you are talking about. The 40 million comes from the 0.3 percent death rate that increasing data suggests. But you are deflecting. Are you happy to risk 40 million people dying? Just answer the question. As for expert studies, my job depends on reading them frequently. It is one of the reasons I am able to debunk every nonsensical rabbit hole some people fall down so easily. Those expert studies (that you dismiss so out of hand) are also the reason why people get the care they need. Heaven help us if were left to you and the cranks you like to cite.

Some valid points there J.a. Sunak might not be a bad alternative in the end. And Sunak vs Starmer might make it feel as though the adults are back in the room, even if the mess they have to deal with might be beyond even them.

It is indeed the longish incubation period that is the problem. And that is the idea behind track and trace, to mitigate that when someone presents with symptoms. But that track and trace system has to be comprehensive to work. You can't be half hearted about it, and everyone has to comply. At present, about a quarter of people don't or won't.

You might be right. He certainly doesn't look well these days.

There are already rumours that Boris will be gone within a year. That suggests that discontent behind the scenes is growing. Cummings was never liked by a lot of Tories MPs in the first place. Essentially, the party is in the hands of a cabal at the moment, that has to deliver on its promises, or it is out.

The real horror for May was in losing that majority in that snap election she called. It was all downhill from there.

And as I pointed out to you, suicide rates actually went DOWN in the first three months of the lockdown period. Why are you always questioning the facts, even when the evidence is presented to you? There is no evidence as yet that suicides rates are going up in this quarter either. So just stop it please. I ask you again, how many people are you prepared to let die globally from a pandemic? 40 million not enough for you obviously? That people already die from other things is irrelevant. You are arguing that we add another 40 million to that! There is a very good reason why family were not allowed to sit next to a highly infectious relatives, in hospitals filling up with dying and serious ill patients, being cared for by overworked and stressed out doctors and nurses, more than a 100 of whom died themselves, having caught this thing at that front line. You have no idea what you are talking about and help no-one TE44.

You asked about suicide data TE44. You can find tables here (link below) but the first quarter of 2020 was in line with previous years. The second quarter (which is the spring/ early summer) shows a significant decrease on previous years. Figures for the third quarter are not available yet. Suicide is a complex issue and understanding a decrease is as valid as understanding any increase. It is quite possible that the decrease is the result of people being able to spend more time at home, without the stress of work life and other things. To assume the trend would only go the other way is a bit premature. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathscausedbysuicidebyquarterinengland

TE44, would you prefer if 40 million people died from covid over the next 18 months globally instead? Genuine question. How many deaths are too many? Epidemiology and exponential growth have been done to death on this forum.

Firstly, there is little chance of Boris's Bill getting through the Lords, so we might as well all ask what is the point of it. And yes, if the Democrats hold either house (or both), they have clearly stated they will block any trade deal if Boris's amendments go through.

I would argue that the rule of six does little to address where the rises in infection are occurring. Within families is one area, and that was always inevitable. The other is pubs. We all remember those pictures of a packed Soho with little or no social distancing when pubs reopened. Most pubs and restaurants are not taking customers details either. Government has decided it can not risk another full lockdown and is hedging on measures being taken now to prevent it. But perhaps if it had done something about enforcing the measures it had already introduced, we might be in a different place. Hospital admissions are starting to slowly move up but if we really want to get through the winter without lockdown, enforcement of things like masks on public transport and in shops becomes essential. One sneeze can infect 2 or 3 people at a time. Any idea of reopening theatres, clubs and stadiums has to be reconsidered too.

SAD lightboxes do not cost a lot of money these days and and as long as it is a medical standard one they do work for a lot of people. You should begin to feel the benefits within two weeks of using one for up to an hour daily. Daylight bulbs are not bright enough to do the same job. Most SAD lamps use very bright LEDs. The Light Pod by Lifemax is a reasonably priced one. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lifemax-Light-107a-Simulated-Daylight/product-reviews/B002MRS5OW

Seenbeen is quite right. Syphilis is not a good comparison. Even comparison to the common cold is a poor analogy because that is caused by a human rhinovirus (HRV) which is not a coronavirus. You are absolutely right about complacency leading to a rise in infection rates and there is no way of protecting older people simply by telling them not to mix with younger people. Firstly, many won't do that, but also, if infection rates rise enough, the virus will be transmitted on door handles, from the postman, delivery drivers, and a multitude of other ways that do not require close human contact. This is something we all have to do together, as a society. Making the world a no-go for older people, just so that younger people can do as they please is not the answer.

Fantastic post diable rouge.

ed26 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Roller disco LOL

Shrieker, stop being an ass. The park houses wildlife and gardens that a lot of work goes into. And you seriously want to turn it into a nightclub? Young people have plenty of bars they can go to, and pandemic aside, nightclubs too. Lordship Lane is full of them. Rye Lane too. On the other suggestion of tennis courts. Are they likely to be used fully either? There were tennis courts there before the skate park and outdoor gym replaced them. Not sure they were maintained or used at all?

I agree with the general sentiments above, that a bowling green can not cost that much to upkeep and that given footfall everywhere is down, because of the pandemic, that now is not the time to be trying to change the use. A bar in that part of the park is a terrible idea and parks are not commercial enterprises anyway, so why something has to be used to any capacity to justify it's existence is a mystery. There is also something quintessentially English about a bowling green. So if the space is to be used for other activities, let's keep it to other lawn games that people might like to try, like croquet, or tranquil oddities like giant chess etc. I agree with the points made above on noise.

Will be interesting to see if that number of 7 has risen after 14 days - the incubation period after catching the virus. That would be a useful measure of risk on flights that contain infected people.

France is beginning to see the start of an exponential increase in new cases and there is no reason to think that won't happen here or anywhere else. It matters who is getting infected also though. So hospital admissions and deaths have to be considered in assessing this.

This is why keeping an eye on local infection rates is the best way to manage risk. No-one wants to be the one that ends up in ICU or worse. But at the same time, it is a question of odds. We can do a lot to mitigate that risk in the behaviour we adopt, and I would say that on the whole, most people have done that.

Telling young people to throw caution to the wind when we still have no vaccine or effective treatment to prevent serious illness or death is dangerous. They are not the only people who have to go out, work, use public transport etc. There is evidence emerging that immunity drops significantly after five months. It could take two years to fully understand what this virus delivers in terms of immunity, and other impacts on the body, because it takes that long to monitor infection and reinfection rates properly. So again, claiming to know anything at this stage in absolute terms is dangerous. This is precisely why medical experts are making no such claims. Herd immunity in most cases requires use of a vaccine. Highly infectious diseases especially, require vaccine programmes to get there. We still have a winter to get through and a lot more will be learned from that. Covid mutates (just like influenza does) and we may well end up with a similar scenario where different versions of vaccines are needed to manage it. This is particularly problematic because this is not a seasonal virus in the way influenza is. And there is still a long way to go yet in finding vaccines that will work, and be safe for widespread use. Trials take as long as they take. People must not be lulled into a false security just because the infection rates are low. They are low precisely because of everything we have done and because they can be tracked. The fear is, that when seasonal coughs and colds emerge, covid will spread quicker than symptoms show themselves, leading to the fast exponential rise in infection that sent us into a global lockdown in the first place. So ultimately is is about balance and common sense. Finding that point at which life can be as normal as possible, but where infection rates remain manageable and containable. It might seem like there is no sense to the rules at present, but really there is. With every stage of easing, the infection data has to be closely monitored. The next big one will be the reopening of schools.

We are beholden to global markets just as the EU is. The sub-prime market crash was a US problem, but banks from every country were invested in it and its derivatives. That is why it was a global crash. The size of the city and financial sector as a percentage of our GDP alone, puts us at massive exposure. It accounts for 10 percent of it.