Blah Blah

Hopefully it is all smelling rather better now :)

And yes TE44, if this virus were the only thing out that that has to faced, that would be fine. But it is not, and there will be indirect consequences for all the reasons you state. For governments, it is a question of balance (with one eye on re-election). For the individual it is also a question of balance, and what is personally at risk for you. A pandemic is like war. We can't stop the destruction, only mitigate it, until it ends.

There is no evidence that this virus was lab created, and bear in mind there are plenty of governments in the world who would love to be able to prove it was. And I second the point on badly designed, if intent is being looked for, as in the case of conspiracy theories. Viruses are complex science and part of the problem is in trying to help a public understand some essence of that complexity. As for range of symptoms, the ACE2 receptors that this virus latches onto are found in many parts of the body, so it is not easy to know who might suffer from what in absolute terms. Cytokine Storms are also unpredictable but there are some patterns emerging in terms of risk. Older people have more ACE2 receptors than younger people, so that is likely to be one explanation in the major divergence across age. People who are very overweight tend to have poorer respiratory health, meaning that inflammation of the lungs will be more significant. But it also seems that higher rates of stroke are being observed in covid carrying patients who have no other symptoms. Again, work is being done to understand what is going on there. It could take years to fully understand the range and risk level of a whole range of conditions that present in parallel with covid. And there is research emerging that patients who had the virus at the peak in April, have already lost 50% of any immunity. That means any idea of herd immunity without a vaccine is looking very unlikely. We have yet to see and measure the results of people being infected for a second time. This is also why second waves can be worse (infection rates aside), as those already recovering with weakened immune systems, become reinfected. All of these things are good reasons to be cautious even if hindsight proves to show we were overly so. One of the many complications in vaccine development, is finding vaccines for viruses that leave low imprints on immune system memory. Basically speaking, with most viral and bacterial infections, the body successfully fights them off, and then remembers for next time, how to produce that antibody to do the same job. A vaccine is designed to do the same thing, teach the body how to produce an antibody and leave a long term memory of that. So how do you produce a vaccine for these low imprint viruses? The development at Oxford, by the team led by Prof Sarah Gilbert, uses a harmless weakened adenovirus (found in chimpanzees) that provokes a known strong immune response, which they have genetically modified with the genetic sequence of the surface spike protein found on the covid virus. It is what we call a pseudovirus, and it contains the information the virus needs to provoke the right immune response, but does not contain the information the source virus has that causes the resulting illness. This is why they are safe to test and work on. In theory, this would induce an immune response, that would be remembered for the next time the virus infects the body. If it works, then this vaccine could reduce covid to the level of a regular chest infection, with modifiable vaccines available for those at most risk if it changes from time to time. It is a development process that this team have used before for flu, Zika, MERS and Ebola. Low immune response viruses are their area of research. And there are basically three stages to testing a new vaccine. In the first stage, the vaccine is given to a small sample of healthy people (around 1000) to test for any side effects, and to measure if it produces a good immune response. If it passes that stage, then in the second stage, the vaccine is expanded to people of all ages and the observation there, it to look for the same results as stage one across age groups. Children would be tested at the end of that phase, only once all adult data is showing a safe response. Phase three is the stage at which a vaccine is tested for final use and involves testing in multiple locations (and countries) and tests reinfection rates too. And that means going to somewhere where the virus is spreading unchecked, so as critical as the world is of Brazil for example, it is the perfect location to test a phase three vaccine. There are then additional phases to test those left out of earlier phases, like pregnant women, or those with serious underlying conditions. All of these stages take time and can't be rushed. Announcements that we could have a vaccine by Christmas, were always foolish and deliberately misleading. And even though most vaccines fail at any of these stages, any news of a vaccine going to stage three is worth keeping an eye on. Governments are also pre-ordering huge batches of stage three vaccines for that reason, just in case. Scaling up any vaccine that works is going to be an additional challenge though.

Essentially stag beetles need wet wood that is partially (and rotting) underground. As you've discovered, the beetle stage is actually the end of their lives from the larvae stage. A female will almost certainly lay her eggs near to rotting wood, so you may see another crop emerge next year :)

I agree with all of that. Whilst a more deadly mutation could be less likely than a less deadly one, we don't to miss the first emergence of such a change, hence all the ongoing monitoring and research.

Just to add, if it is a chest freezer, so you are looking down into a sealed tank. Could just fill it with cold water and dissolve a bag of that into it. Leave it overnight and empty it tm. That should get rid of the smell as well.

For the smell, mix sodium bicarbonate with cold water into a paste, and coat the affect areas with that. Leave it for at least 30-40 mins before cleaning it off. It neutralises odours. Good for soaking laundry that animals have peed on too. You can order a good sized bag online and have it delivered tm if you are quick; https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sodium-Bicarbonate-Soda-Cooking-Cleaning/dp/B003S3WQBW

Rate of new cases is up almost 50% on two days ago. It takes about four weeks for rises in new infections to show after easing of lockdown measures, hence having to look at what changed four weeks ago to get some sense of the causes. If this trend continues over the next 7-14 days, Boris is going to have some decisions to make. Theaters and other high density confined spaces are due to open this week, with social distancing, but I sadly can't see them being open long. Edited to add that the figures are 1,441 new cases today, compared to 1,009 new cases two days ago. Even though they are small figures, it is the exponential growth that is the issue.

So you are asking me to agree with opinion that is factually incorrect because you have a different set of life experiences to me? That is not how science works. All that matters in science is a that a set of experiments, or processes, can be repeated again and again and get the same results. When science uses different processes to try and achieve the same thing, it is always looking for corroboration. Your articles don't actually conflict each other either. The second one, which discusses isolates specifically, is not actually denying that different strains exist. What it is arguing is that the differences are so small that no impact is made on the behaviour of the virus, and that it is misleading to talk about those differences in the term of there being different versions of this virus. It also acknowledges that claims are being made in pre-prints. That means papers awaiting peer review. Remember that explanation I gave you of antigenic shift vs drift? His criticism is in the use of language that leads to the inference of the existence of different versions of the virus before evidence is corroborated. And it is a fair note of caution, because mutation, or significant drift, would make this virus more dangerous if we can not create a modifiable vaccine for it, so everyone is looking for evidence of it at every stage. In that environment, it is easy for small changes to be overplayed as something they are not really. And if you look in the comments section, several comments point out that papers claiming to have identified different strains (with measurable different properties) are still waiting to be peer reviewed. So different strains may well already exist. More importantly though, the scientific community is constantly checking itself, corroborating and sharing findings. Making allegations of corruption isn't helpful.

You are finally posting articles that confirm the covid virus can be isolated TE44. Does that mean you have progressed on that point? And then you go on some journey that starts with conspiracy theory and ends with an incoherent point about death so I am not sure what point you are really trying to make there. Suicide is a rather complex subject. Most people who take that step, have a prior history of depressive illness, which can be short term, or go back years. Hi Effra, I take your point, but I also think it more useful to challenge and debunk conspiracy theories in the open, even if my patience is tested at times ;)

It is very hard to be optimistic. What happens in winter when it is cold and raining every day? Pubs and restaurants won't be filling tables outside then. There is only so far a business can go in price hikes, especially at a time when people are being made unemployed. I also have to say that far too many commercial landlords have been complete sh+ts too, in expecting their tenants to continue to pay full rent. For a pub or restaurant, this is a major cost that has already seen even big chain stores reduce their outlets, never mind small independent businesses calling it a day. Does that make me the forth horseman?

I base everything around scientific research and demonstrable findings. There are nuances in differences of scientific opinion which scientists themselves acknowledge in their own research, especially in the midst of a novel viral pandemic where so much is still to be known. You do not read papers properly, and then you use unrelated science and opinion to refute them. That line of debate has to be debunked. And if that is not enough, you resort to infantile sneering when the debunk comes. You can not even admit you are wrong about the isolation of the covid virus can you? (Plenty of published research out there on that, which you conveniently have managed to avoid for some reason). Be as rude as you like, it has no impact on me. That kind of attitude though, is the behaviour of someone throwing a strop because they can't bear the evidence that refutes their claim. You have no interest in corroborative science, over confirmation bias for some other agenda (which is why you seek out opinion that is completely out of sync with the bulk of the scientific community). There is a very good reason why some people don't want to risk getting this virus. They don't want to be the person lying in an ICU unit for weeks, or worse still dying. Nor do they want to be responsible for giving it to someone else who ends up in that place. This is not seasonal Flu, nothing like it.

I am always going to correct those who deliberately peddle mistruths. Why? Because this is something that can cost lives when it comes to public health. That you are too arrogant to take on board the corrections is all down to you I'm afraid. FACT, the virus HAS been isolated by many labs around the world. FACT, spread of the virus can be reduced by the use of the right barrier. That should be clear enough for you by now.

Great result and well done for making the effort.

There was I think, some pretty heavy lobbying going on behind the scenes from people with vested interests.

I think it is inevitable that any space (indoor or otherwise) where viral spread can not be controlled will be ordered to lockdown when seasonal infections arrive. Pubs are particularly at risk because drunk people forget the rules. It is as simple as that, and the empirical evidence is already showing a slow incremental rise in infection rates linked to pubs.

Seconded on avoiding places that will put her down if not rehomed. She is chipped so I think it is worth hanging on for a few days to see if the registered owner can be found. She may well have been stolen at some point too, but if the registered owner rehomed her, there might be a lead there too.

And to push the point TE44, because this really matters and you are spreading misinformation. Isolation of the virus, is essential for growing pathogens in labs that can then be worked on for vaccines. It is one of the first things scientists strive do to when presented with either a new virus or new strains of a known virus. To claim otherwise is just false. And the more the covid virus is observed, the more its impacts on ACE2 receptors in other parts of the body, like the brain for example are becoming known. It will take years to fully understand every aspect of covid, and yet you still try to downgrade it to the level of a virus we not only have the ability to vaccinate against, but one that covid has surpassed the annual global death toll from in just months. How high do you think the death toll would have been without the pandemic measures? How high do you think it will be after we go through a winter of spread on the back of seasonal coughs and colds? The government is absolutely right to start mitigating now for what could happen over the winter if we take our eye off the ball. And face coverings absolutely will be a part of that mitigation.

T44, you are a broken record that keeps repeating the same flawed opinion. Again, it has been explained to you again and again why this is NOT flu. Have you learned nothing? Or do you just refuse to learn full stop? Go and catch the virus if you really want it that much. But don't tell other people how to look after themselves or take offense if they accuse you of risking their health when you ignore the government advice. Come November, we will be having a very different conversation, I can assure you of that. And btw, the virus WAS isolated as far back as in March. A Canadian team were among the first to do so. I suggest you widen your research beyond the confirmation bias you seek.

Now you are being deliberately sarcastic TE44 whilst posting science you seem not to understand. The covid sample test has nothing to do genome sequencing and this study, so why are you conflating the two and posting irrelevant links that claim the virus has never been isolated? This is completely false. The virus has been isolated by labs in most countries. There are many electron microscopic photos of it. I've had this out with you before so why do you keep repeating the same falsehood? Also, the report makes comparisons with other studies that failed to find similar results before going on to explain what was different in the methodology in this study. You seem to have completely misread the point of this comparison and ignored their findings as a result. The study I posted is remarkable because it proves the active form of the virus can transmit intact airborne as stated here; 'Results: SARS-CoV-2 genomic RNA (vRNA) was detected by real-time reverse transcriptase quantitative polymerase chain reaction (rRT-qPCR) in material collected by air samplings 1-1, 1-3, 2-1, and 2-3, which had been performed without a HEPA filter covering the inlet tube.' And what is a HEPA Filter TE44? A mesh designed to trap fine particulates. And what does the report say when a HEPA filter is used? 'In contrast, in the presence of a HEPA filter, no SARS-CoV-2 genomes were detected in air samplings 1-2 and 2-2 (Table 1).' The evidence from this study is that SARS CoV-2 can travel airborne, and that the right kind of barrier can stop it traveling. What is still questionable though, is how high a level of particulates needs to be present to infect others (viral load). The study makes a reasonable conclusion here; 'Unlike previous studies, we have demonstrated the virus in aerosols can be viable, and this suggests that there is an inhalation risk for acquiring COVID-19 within the vicinity of people who emit the virus through expirations including coughs, sneezes, and speaking.' This has implications when those seasonal colds and coughs hit in the winter and the measures the government may well end up forcing everyone to adhere to. But more bizarre is your contradictory criticism of the advice designed to keep spread to a minimum. Are you determined to catch this thing or something?

Quite Katgod, and there is now emerging research of airbourne infection of up to 4 meters. The Winter is going to be a real challenge if people don't start understanding the part all these small measures play. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/coronavirus-latest-airborne-aerosol-outbreaks-social-distancing-a9667706.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1597267298 The research paper here; https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.03.20167395v1.full.pdf

In France you have no choice in the matter. Asia too. No-one has died because they wore a mask in the shops. The over reaction is the outrage at being asked to wear a simple face covering, so they you don't breathe germs on anyone else.

I have exactly the same washing basket and coffee table at home! Best purchase ever ;)

I stand by my point TE44. Let's leave it there.

TE44, we are in the midst of a pandemic. So cease with the word salad and twisting my comments. I am not talking about people with asthma and you well know it. I am talking about perfectly healthy people who simply refuse to follow the advice for everyone's protection out of their own selfish refusal to understand why they are being asked to wear one for the few minutes they spend in a shop.