Blah Blah

Well said Sephiroth.

Can you not see the irony in your accusations TheCat? This thread was actually getting along fine, and then you decided to stir things up again with yet another tirade of sarcastic who knows what. The only one picking fights is you.

Yep, damned if he does, damned if he doesn't, and it was always thus from the off. There is one caveat though. Coronavirus could possibly be the ideal and sole scapegoat for any economic hit. An electorate that bought the unicorns of Brexit, may just fall for that too.

I have to strongly disagree EDguy. A new version of a virus, easily transmitted, that has no vaccine in place, with a mortality rate of up to 3%, that hospitalises at least another 10% has the potential of being a global pandemic that overwhelms health services. The efforts to contain it are right and based on expert knowledge around epidemiology. Do we really want another Spanish Flu scenario (where 100 million people died worldwide)? SARS, MERS, Ebola all had that same potential. That they didn't become global pandemics is down to experts developing processes of containment that work. COVID19 is a different challenge because of the ease at which it is spreading. And if someone is in one of those high risk groups, it doesn't help to have those who are not, downplay the risk. There would also be severe economic impacts to a full scale pandemic that would bite. We all have a responsibility AND a vested interest in taking the potential risks seriously.

So you really want to rerun the same arguments around ignorance already done to death, really? Where shall we start? With a big red bus perhaps? Put down the troll potion ffs.

Italy is a hotspot. But interesting to see them take the same measures (essentially) as China.

To follow the advice being given. And to be aware of who the most vulnerable groups are.

Slow hand clap...... It is blatantly obvious that some (if not many) leave voters voted for something without having any clue of the complexities. That was the whole drive of the leave campaign. So please, don't insult the intelligence of people here.

Just to bring some sanity back into this discussion, the danger around viral mutations that have no vaccine is well understood. Fortunately, we are in a place to be able to develop vaccines relatively quickly. Every previous pandemic now has a vaccine or an effective form of treatment/ containment. Ebola is a case in point. We don't have to wait for 100 million people to die anymore to understand the potential danger. We should be thankful for that. There are very highly qualified people monitoring these risks all year round. A success story would be that COVID19 never gets to a place where it does its potential worst. That does not mean the risk was never real, it just means that we have genuinely found a way to prevent a global pandemic this time. So let's all do our part to help that outcome.

Aldi and Lidl have plenty of loo roll..... just saying ;)

Except TheCat, VAT for the most part is something government decides. Most consumer products are subject to it and the ban on zero rate tax on consumer products is something that applies to ALL products, so trying to conflate that with misogyny and the other infantile daggers of your post is disingenuous. I thought we had got past that?

TE44 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Yes pk it almost put me off as well, but as I said > snippets, I don't suppose you got past the > headline. It is a Canadian nationalist conspiracy theory group. Don't fall for their nonsense.

TE44 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Blah Blah I am aware there is planning around > viruses an different scenarios. I d nt trust the > Who nor the CDC, The institutional organisatios > involved with our health need to be more > transparent and more answerable for there action. > The one thing I feel we can be absolutely sure of, > from these organisations and others connected with > them is we will not be told the truth, maybe > little snippets thrown in. This is just conspiracy theory nonsense. The WHO and CDC is driven by the input of health professions and medical experts. They are in constant communication with world health bodies and regularly feeding reports out to health professionals. There is a balance to be struck between sensible advice and causing unnecessary panic also.

Seenbeen, the WHO have no power over the regulations sovereign governments impose and enforce. If you think they have not been trying to educate on the risks around avian flu transmission then you know nothing about the WHO. Also, as I have pointed out above,flu mutations have originated from the USA, South Africa and various origins that are not wet markets of Asia. All it takes for the virus to hop from bird to pig to human for example, is that humans are in close proximity to animals. Flu virus does not however transmit through raw meat. It transmits via living hosts. It is not that the markets are wet that is the issue, but that lots of living livestock are in close proximity to lots of people. This is a very different problem to a farm worker being infected from a pig. The latter is easy to contain, the former not. But absolutely, the risks could be minimised by stopping the sale of live meat at markets. Aside from flu viruses, there are all kinds of other bacterial issues around those markets that should also be addressed. TE44, planning for pandemics has been an ongoing process for decades. Coronavirus is not a unique term. It is simply the type of virus of which COVID19 is just the latest mutation. So it is perfectly logical that the WHO would carry out an exercise featuring one of the best known groups of flu virus.

seenbeen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Trinnydad Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > @BB > > > > Whilst, as you say, there was no "definite > > evidence" the probability is in favour of China > > being the source of the Spanish. > > China has proven to be the source of The "Asian > > Flu" that originated in China in early 1956. > > Likewise the SARS epidemic. > > > > This being the case, China needs to get a grip. > > What is the actual point of the World Health > Organisation? Why are you quoting a factually incorrect post before posing the question? The WHO is an international body whose purpose is to coordinate on health matters for the nations signed up to it. It also provides leadership and pathways for research. You would know the difference if it didn't exist. What it does not have however, is the power to tell sovereign governments how to run their affairs. Edited to also say that viruses mutate and always have. Flu viruses have been an ongoing challenge for science. They mutate on a regular basis. Thinking we can create a world in which a flu pandemic never emerges is sadly a bit optimistic.

No you are wrong. The probability for Spanish flu is in favour of the USA, and pathology supports that probability. The first documented cases emerged from the USA even. Did you not read anything I wrote above? The first case of Asian Flu was not reported from China either, but Singapore (in 1957), followed by a case in Hong Kong and the coastal areas of the USA. The H3N2 virus of 1968, originated in the USA (killed about 1 million globally and still exists as a seasonal flu virus today). As keen as you are to demonise China, you might want to learn something about avian flu and the measures that are always ongoing to contain it. Have a look at this link to understand that avian and swine flu can emerge pretty much anywhere. What matters is detection and response. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/pandemic-timeline-1930-and-beyond.htm

Wrong Trinidad. It is unknown exactly where Spanish Flu emerged from. France, Britain, China and the USA are all possibilities cited, but without any definitive evidence. However without going into the science too deeply, pathology specimens preserved from the time were analysed with present day molecular techniques in 2004, and the genes pointed not only to avian transmission, but closely mapped North American wild waterfowl. Migratory birds are monitored for avian flu viruses all year round by epidemiologists on the lookout for the next possible bird flu pandemic because the danger is known. Whilst China and other countries, have food standards that are either not enforced, or risky, it is important to understand that any person working closely with a range of animals, from poultry to pigs, can be the first host for an avian flu virus. Spanish flu genes are found in pigs and people to this day. So it is not just about livestock at markets, but a whole range of farming practises.

Spartacus, the issue is not the mortality rate, but the percentage of people who need ICU care to recover. Current evidence says that is 10 per cent. Imagine if just a quarter of the population contract the virus at the same time. That would be need for more than a million ICU beds and medical staff to treat them. THAT is why China built two new hospitals in ten days. FYI, we have less than 180k hospital beds nationally and under 7k of those are in ICU's. The concern is real. China has seen success because whole regions have been confined to staying at home, to the expense of local economies. It may well be however, that once those restrictions are lifted, the virus recovers. This is the problem with viruses. They keep going until there is no supply left for them to infect. Similarly, there will be reluctance from many countries to follow the example of China if the virus takes hold. For a comparison, Spanish Flu had a mortality rate of 1-3 per cent. It spread unchecked and ended up killing 100 million over two years. Seasonal flu by comparison kills around half a million each year and has a mortality rate of less than 1 per cent. So why risk a pandemic when we can try as hard as possible to contain, at least until a vaccine is ready for use.

A perfect example of Boris making it up as he goes along is the fate of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe. His laziness has consequences. And that is also why a figure like Cummings ends up with so much power.

That's a good article Uncle and I think fairly sums up the relationship between the two. 'Yes Minister' owed a lot to the out of sync outlook between ministers and civil servants. I get the sense that Cummings wants a revolution within the CS however, that makes it think more like government, rather than both camps learning to appreciate what each other actually does a bit more.

JohnL Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Sometime people bully because of the pressure > they're under from above, whatever, the leader of > the organisation has to be the one to make a stand > against bullying at all levels. > > That means you Boris (or maybe Dom). This is entirely possible too. A culture can be set from the top down.

There is now that story of a former assistant being paid ?25k in settlement over another accusation of bullying by Priti. So there is clearly something behind these accusations of her behaviour.

Those of us with a deep interest in government and wider politics are not overlooking this Malumbu. We know we are in another top down government, with an unelected advisor wielding the real power over the civil service and advisors. I think reality is going to hit once those trade talks start in earnest. Boris can't hide every time the kitchen gets a bit hot.

Camberwell is best for the Gym. Nice big gym, lots of space and equipment, high ceiling and skylight running the length of it. Never hugely busy either. Pretty sure the membership allows you to use any council run (by Everyone Active) Leisure center in the borough.

It is quite clear that Boris is ambivalent to parenthood. He has a much younger partner who cearly wants children. She just hasn't woken up to that fact that Boris is ambivalent yet.