Blah Blah

And it literally is like that....just looking for anything to eat. I saw one woman in lidl trying to buy her weekly catfood shop, only to be told she could only buy 8 packets, not 12. She stated that she had four cats and it had taken her three shops to find catfood and that she wasn't even buying more than she normally does. And she could not come at opening time because she had to work! The people in front of her offered to buy the surplus four instead but the supermarket wouldn't allow it. So its not even human food affected. It is just crazy.

The biggest challenge for NHS staff is going to be looking after themselves, eating properly and getting enough sleep in what is likely to be their busiest ever time. Many of them are going to be working ridiculous hours, skipping breaks, and everything else in life is likely to stop. I would say some kind of buddy system that supports NHS staff with other responsibilities they can not meet would be a massive support. That can be anything from childcare to shopping, to sorting a broken down boiler. I think every frontline NHS worker should have a volunteer 'buddy'.

I agree with Prit and think a separate COVID section would be a very good idea, with threads for all the support networks setting up, so not just ED ones, but the surrounding areas, like Nunhead, Camberwell etc. A one stop place for the wide range of forum users (including those located in areas on the fringes of ED) would be invaluable. And thank you, not only for this forum but for thinking of how it could be of best use in this pandemic. We all get to use it for free and absolutely appreciate the work that goes into providing it.

Anything arts and crafts (if they are creative). That could be anything from screen printing to making wicker baskets. There are kits for all sorts of things online. Do either of them fancy drone flying? :D

Many people rely on the budget brands of the supermarkets to get by. M&S for a weekly shop is beyond many people's means. But some of this problem is also the supermarkets supply chains. Supermarkets plan ahead, placing extra orders for known peak times (we never run out of anything at xmas for example, when most people are shopping for a couple of weeks). This is a combination of people stockpiling and a supply chain that is set to normal. The supermarkets have been slow to respond, hence the cynical view that they have had no issue with cashing in from it. Announcement on the News tonight though that they are going to do something, because even rationing is not working. Most shelves were stripped by lunchtime.

It's becoming impossible now to get essentials unless you can get to a store as it opens and do a trolley dash! And there seems to be no end to it! Most shelves are stripped within a couple of hours, even with the rationing.

Folks, trying to mitigate death rates because of unknown cases is a red herring. ALL mortality rates are measured with those who die against those KNOWN to have the condition. So when a mortality of rate of 4 percent is apparent, it IS comparable to a mortality rate of 0.1 percent (as in flu). The fact is that COVID19 which is in fact SARS CoV 2, is twice as infectious as seasonal flu and 30 times more deadly. This is a dangerous virus, have no doubts about that. SARS CoV 1 had a mortality rate of 10 percent in the end. If you measure the global mortality rate for COVID19 vs those who have fully recovered, you are getting into the 9 percent realm. On Boris - his flaws are well known. Has his government made mistakes already? Yes they have. Have they been slow to understand what is coming? Yes they have. As right wing free market conservatives, they are going to have to abandon their belief in libertarian economics. This is going to be as big a challenge for them as fighting this virus is.

In a word, yes. We don't have enough testing kits and we don't seem to be doing enough to order what we are going to need. It is as though someone in government said, we've tested 40k people and only a tiny fraction were positive, so why bother? They completely fail to understand the value of testing in helping people to take the right action to slow the spread of the infection. We are therefore now in a situation where only those who show symptoms, and those who have contact with those people, will self isolate. This means the opportunity for the virus to spread is not hindered as much as it could be. Medical professionals are pointing out the lunacy of this. No-one is listening.

Yes and no malumbu. Where I would agree with you is in that this is a fast moving situation that waits for no man. It is an enormously difficult task to put in all the safeguards needed overnight. But at the same time, they have been too slow to the gate, hence the sudden onslaught of concern from just about every sector of the economy and society. Time for them to get moving now. Personally, I think if anyone is likely to mess it up, its Boris. His gaff 'operation last gasp' yesterday being a case in point. He lacks the self awareness and empathy to really connect with what ordinary people are about to go through. So his best bet is to focus on resources and logistics, and making sure everyone has what they need, and leave the quips and clowning at the door. People have also got to play their part, understand the seriousness of this virus and do as asked. Going to a pub is not a safe thing to do. Because even if you are socially distanced, the table you sit at, the chair you move to sit down on, could easily have just been vacated by someone with the virus that coughed all over it. The only environment you have control over, is your home. And to be blunt. There are going to be people around you that die and you will be shocked it was them. We will all hear people say, 'I never realised it was so serious', 'I never thought I could lose so and so like this'. This is very much the calm before the storm. Things are absolutely going to become very serious within weeks.

Hmmm, might be worth trying to get the idea raised. Will email our MP and see if something can be suggested to the newly formed pandemic cabinet. I think a lot of people are going to lose jobs and I am sure some of those and others would jump at the chance to do something, just to not feel helpless if nothing else.

I was thinking today that the government should create an official Pandemic Volunteer Organisation. But it needs to come from government.

DF, the problem for the government is in not sending small business to the wall. In other words, this government still hasn't yet got a full pandemic head on. It is hoping that people will follow advice and reduce the need for more draconian measures. That approach clearly did not work in France however, so some might say it is only a matter of time. The other thing is that government is also stretched to think of every impact of every decision and find solutions - things are moving so fast. The very idea we can be thinking of trade negotiations with the EU at this time for example, is bonkers. And thank goodness we are still in transition and part of the single market, and able to access all the food and other imports we are going to need over the coming months. So stop referencing idiotic social media mouthpieces and start understanding the facts. This pandemic (and it IS a pandemic) has the potential to push the world into war levels of debt. The best chance we have of getting through it and getting back to normal, is to slow the spread and buy time, for either a vaccine or combination drug treatments that work to emerge. Understand why, understand that COVID19 is 30 times more lethal than seasonal flu, understand what an 18 percent hospitalisation rate means for the NHS and do your part to help make sure we don't get anywhere near to that worst case scenario.

Depending on where this goes, how many people can not go to work, how many companies go bust, the supply lines of plenty that we have all been used to, might begin to falter. It is all very well the government saying, there is plenty of food etc, but that is not what people see when they go to a supermarket with bare shelves. Something has to give.

No, because it only addresses the operational considerations of health services. This is not a plan of action for addressing things like food shortage, civil unrest, and all the things that those not in hospital or under a care package may face. I would like to see a dedicated logistic approach and plan for those things. We are only at the beginning of this journey and the shops are already stripped bare. Some vulnerable people are already starting to struggle to just get a normal daily or weekly shop. The time for action on that is now, even if that means talking directly to supermarkets that are not already rationing the quantities people can buy.

Good point on the child care for essential workers and should be entirely doable. We need to hear local councils now make statements around action plans and see them lobbying government for the extra help they will need. And to add that it is going to have to be local authorities guiding government on what is needed here, because we are being governed by those sheltered from the lives of ordinary people by privilege and antiquated ideas from the past around 'Dunkirk spirit' and all that. Boris Johnson is completely out of his depth.

It is not rocket science. The council are about to have a lot of vulnerable people getting ill with no means of buying food and toiletries because the shelves have been stripped bare by those in a better resourced situation. The council needs to stop all non essential services and start focusing on a strategy to make sure people have everything they need to get through the next few months and stay well. I will be communicating that to my local councillors and advise everyone else does the same.

Maybe those with cars could offer to get a good shop in for those who are vulnerable groups with no means of transport, who have to risk going shopping every few days, in the hope there might something on the shelves left for them? Because at this rate, we are going to have to call in the Red Cross, just to make sure some people can still eat and stay well. Utterly ridiculous.

Yes cost is a factor for a lot of people. Small shops can be twice the cost of own brands in big supermarkets. So not the answer for some people.

We are down to our last four rolls of toilet paper and I seriously am imagining having to queue outside the door of a supermarket an hour before it opens this week just to get some damn loo roll for normal everyday use. If supermarkets don't start enforcing rationing, the government will have to. This can not go on like this for months and quite frankly, emails from supermarket managers appealing to customers better side won't cut it. When people panic, they listen to no-one.

TE44 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Blah Blah you seem to have understanding of > scientific language, can you explain in laymans > terms the safety concerns of live vaccines, sorry > I cannot put up whole link, i have phone and don't > know how to. It would be interesting to hear in > laymans terms an explaination on antigen > shift/drift. In simple terms, when the virus mutates in a small way (ie a small change to the genetic makeup), that is referred to as antigenic drift. When the change to the genetic makeup is major, that is referred to as antigenic shift. Antigenic shift is the mutation that usually leads to pandemic and happens less frequently than antigenic drift. What defines a minor vs a major mutation is this. Drift (minor) mutation naturally happens over a long time to known forms of virus, in an evolutionary way. Shift (major) mutation is when two strains of the same virus, or mutation between strains of two different viruses happens (so a major transformation), and the result is a mix of surface antigens from both strains. Influenza is the best known virus that works in this way. Drift happens in all influenza types, but shift only happens in influenza A, because that one infects animals too and it is that crossover between humans and animals that gives antigens the conditions for major realignment. A virus that lives only in ones species has less opportunity to rewrite itself in any major way, if that makes sense. I will come back to you to answer your question on vaccines. That answer depends on what the vaccine is trying to do, so needs some context, and right now I am being called to peel potatoes :D

Not difficult at all Penguin. Herd immunity only works as part of a vaccination programme, the idea being that those most at risk are protected behind a wall of a vaccinated majority. The term herd immunity was completely misused in that press conference. You do not achieve herd immunity by experimenting with a new virus for which there is no vaccine. On football games, given that the FA has cancelled all games til the end of march in the higher leagues, it surely should have sent a message to all other clubs to cancel theirs too.

I second that. A service to help get food and other supplies to those having to self isolate with no resources to call upon for help. That can be just about anyone in genuine need, and not currently under any Adult Social Care package.

Just some interesting news to share. Whilst a vaccine may take some time, immunologists are carefully testing some of the drugs we currently use to fight other viral infections. It appears that both Remdesivir (used to treat Ebola)and combo Ritonavir/Lopinavir (used to treat HIV) kill the COVID19 virus. And two anti-inflammatories - hydroxychloroquine and tocilizumab seem to help reduce lung inflammation (the latter has just been licensed for use in China on COVID19 patients). These need further testing of course, but it might just be that our way out of the immediate crisis is with already approved drugs. Also promising are aspects of the work done towards a vaccine for SARS CoV. For those of you interested in the science of that and the stage it is at... https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.11.987958v1.full.pdf

Herd immunity is not a straightforward thing, especially when considering virus that regularly mutate, like influenza. Herd immunity also is more usually achieved when some kind of mass vaccine programme is in place. Nothing should be ruled out, and everything should be considered, at this stage. As for southern hemisphere rates of infection and warm weather, we are not seeing that correlation in Latin America or the West coast of Africa (where infection rates are still two or three weeks behind us). Iran is also a case in point. This is not a flu virus. It is a respiratory virus. It is too early to say if warm weather will affect infection rates. The whole idea behind pushing our exponential rates of infection out to the summer is purely to be hitting a peak at a time of year when the NHS is not dealing with the seasonal flu infections. We do not know yet if warm weather will impact this Coronavirus in itself. There is some prior evidence of mild Coronavirus being suppressed by warm weather, but this could not be said of SARS CoV. In short, it is just too early to know or say, and we also have to be careful of not attributing decreasing rates of infection through public behaviour and government action to a coincidental change in season. The optimistic thing to add though, is that if all the measures being taken by various governments work to lessen the impact of the virus, then we will be in a better place to act as soon as it reappears (as no doubt it will) over the next 18 months. This is not something that will be gone by the summer (as some are signalling). This is something we have to 'manage', until a working vaccine is doing that job for us, and the flattening of peak approach is the right one. Things are going to be tricky for some time yet.

This crazy behaviour needs to stop, and supermarkets could do more than they are doing to stop it. They could start with limiting customers to two packs of anything being panic bought. That most of them haven't done this yet is baffling. Happy to cash in on the extra sales it seems.