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Will be interested to see how this goes. We have a garden that we could put some plants to good use in :)

Yes, no evidence yet that warmer temperatures stop the virus. And that won't be known for some time yet. Respiratory viruses are not flu viruses, so making assumptions that they behave in the same way is premature. Some of the first places to show spread outside of China are warm climates.

We are all veggies in our household seenbeen, so think the whole wet market with open slaughter principle to be completely barbaric. That it also breaks every known parameter around bacterial and viral contamination is something every person, carnivore or veggie should be in agreement on. There are safe methods for meat production, and there are super healthy methods too through the free range option. There is NO excuse for anyone to be buying and eating dangerous meat. A lot of this is down to culture, way of life, over education and sanitation. But how many governments around the world are really reduced to feeding their nations with dangerous methods of food distribution? None is the answer. Much of the dangerous meat trade is illegal. So taking on the illegal meat trade is where the focus needs to be right now.

KidKruger Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Sue, rather than quarantine your jar of peanut > butter, why not wash it like a dish in the kitchen > sink. > We are washing all shopping properly, then rinsing > it and letting it dry on drainer (except fridge > stuff which goes straight in there. > We quarantine our post though, it stays on floor > for a few days - we ain't washing that !! Yes, just a good wash with soap and disinfectant will be enough. It has been in transit in its packaging for 2-3 days anyway. No need for an extended quarantine. Enjoy the taste of disappearing peanut butter ;)

We just donated. Captain Tom is an inspiration to us all.

The real story is way better. A dead tree stump was turned into an art piece that people can enjoy/ debate forever. Granted it won't be everyone's cup of tea, but anything is better than a dead tree stump that eventually gets removed for being just a dead tree stump. The only alternative was perhaps a new sapling in its place. Personally, I like the quirky totem pole ;)

I think we have to remember here, what is it like to be a teenager. You feel invincible at that age right? And death is something that happens to old people right? We live in a western culture where most people do not die before their time. This is very different to parts of the world where people frequently die from the impacts of poor hygiene, poor sanitation, and poor healthcare. In many ways, our first world sanitation is our downfall. We live in a bubble where the very idea of an unseen microscopic virus upending our way of life is an anathema. So that poses a question that is as much about culture as it is about science. How do we impress on that minority of teens and adults alike who think they are not part of the risk? The good news is that they are a minority. The bad news is that it only takes one infected person to cause havoc with this virus. I don't have the answers either sadly, but if we are to change those minority mindsets, we need to be clever about it. It is about winning the argument.

Interesting post Plough Man. It does have an air of cronyism about it. It would also explain why the WHO were relaying Chinese press statements early on that were subsequently found to be wrong, instead of seeking corroboration. The Chinese declaration that human to human transmission was not happening being a case in point. All of this needs to be fully investigated once this is all over. Edited to say this was in response to the previous post. On WHO funding, that might also be something that needs to be looked at too, but I would argue that for now, all the focus should be on dealing with the pandemic. It is not helpful to be taking any action against the WHO right now. Worth also suggesting that Trump's action is with half an eye on the election later this year. He is deflecting blame for his slow response and dismissal of the virus in February now that the death rate is shooting up. And there are still many states in the US not operating lock downs yet, with all of them having reported at least one death from the virus. So things are probably going to get much worse for the US.

You've given me an idea for a new thread Sue - Everyday items that have now become luxuries :D

The Chinese have been eating all the things they do for centuries. Cheap exports of manufactured goods have nothing to do with it.

Just a couple of points. Re; NHS vs Private. In a pandemic, you would expect the NHS to be the primary lead, because it is a public health issue, with a government led response. No-one would be going into private care on this one, unless as a last resort (ie lack of NHS ICU capacity), and it would be the NHS referring them there. As for his care at the hospital itself. He is the Prime Minister, with all the security concerns that entails. So of course he would be separated. The actual care he would receive though would be no different to that of ANY patient. So for me, neither of these things are an issue, and when it comes to the actual virus, he absolutely is just like the rest of us. That is why he ended up in hospital in the first place. Time will tell though if his own experience changes government policy towards the NHS and public sector in general.

I thought it was a genuine and heartfelt speech ????. And I would hope it leads to a more appreciative line of policy, not just towards NHS workers, but to all those key workers, from the min wage shop workers and drivers, to the refuse collectors and so on. They are the people that really keep everything going in a crisis. I also appreciate that Boris stressed the international contribution to our NHS. After the toxic language of the last three years towards migrants, it was good to finally see some recognition of the huge contribution many of those migrants make. Not sure if that will lead to a similar epiphany from Priti Patel, but we can hope.

Just a note of caution. It hasn't completed any trials yet, so drawing conclusions around how it might be of benefit is a bit premature. Malaria is not a viral condition. It is parasitic, and chloroquine phosphate works by stopping the growth of parasites in the red blood cells. If someone has liver or renal damage, there is a higher risk of side effects and in some people it can cause renal damage. So this is why it possibly won't be helpful to patients with serve symptoms, mainly because one of the worst impacts of COVID19 are those cytokine storms. The French trial stopped because it induced increased heart rates in patients. So how might it help some COVID patients? Studies are looking for RNA suppression. In other words, does chloroquine inhibit the rate of viral RNA increase? And that is where there is some suggestion of effectiveness, up to as much as by 50%. Now while that is not stopping the virus completely, it is significantly reducing the viral load, which then gives the immune system more of a chance of producing the correct amount of antibodies - thereby lowering the risk of both developing more severe symptoms and those cytokine storms. More studies need to carried out, and findings published and peer reviewed before any conclusions can be drawn as absolutes. Dosage is important as well as avoiding risks and side effects. Hydroxychloroquine is more soluble and less toxic and has less side effects than chloroquine phosphate. It also seems to achieve slightly better RNA inhibition rates so that might be where research focuses moving forward. We don't have any tailored treatment at the moment, so anything that works in any way, even if only for a few patients, should be explored and used if safe to do so.

I just watched it. I think it is very good and really explains the science in terms that everyone should be able to understand. Everyone should watch it imo.

Not quite true. The Chinese did make the sale of some wild animals illegal after the first SARS outbreak, but clearly that did not go far enough. It is enforcement that is the issue, even with the complete ban on the farming, sale and consumption of wild animals that China is now seeking to impose. This article highlights the challenge articulately. https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/05/asia/china-coronavirus-wildlife-consumption-ban-intl-hnk/index.html Also worth pointing out that this is not only an issue in China, but parts of Asia generally. And even in the West, we have our own challenges around intensive animal farming. Swine and avian flu pandemics for example, can emerge anywhere as we all farm these animals intensively. So I would argue that we all need to think about our whole approach to animal consumption over the longer term.

To be fair, I think both are equally thoughtless and as bad as each other. Those Labour officials have been punished (rightly so). Boris suffered no consequences for his language about muslims, gay men and black people however. It is all unacceptable and if it is going to be rooted out from politics, then it ALL has to be admonished in equal measure. Until then, it remains a case of pot simply calling the kettle black.

I think that given what we know about the virus, its infection and mortality rates (with all their variations), that it is hard to believe the Chinese account. The first cases started presenting themselves to Chinese hospitals in late November. That is when those doctors (who were initially silenced) started talking about SARS like symptoms in several patients on their whatsapp group. We now know that an infected person can take as much as two weeks to show symptoms and that some people show little or no symptoms at all. We also know that during this period, those people are infectious and that this virus spreads far more easily than flu. In early January, China claimed there was no human to human transmission. Now whilst it does take time for science to understand a novel virus, one of the first things that will be looked at, is transmission, both method and rate. So putting all of that together, it makes little sense that either infection rates, or mortality would be so low in China. It also explains perhaps the urgency with which China also entirely locked down entire cities and provinces. No-one would have expected them to have all the answers, but the world does have a right to expect honesty, given what has followed. I would also add that I don't think they are the only nation being dishonest about infection and mortality rates either.

France has stopped its trials into Chloroquine for now because of the increased risk of heart failure in patients. How the body responds in a very sick patient, may be different to how the body responds in someone with mild symptoms. There is just so much going on when the body is fighting severe infection. Chloroquine may well become part of some combination drug treatment in a prescribed dose though. Essentially it works to reduce fever and inflammation. My hope would be that by the end of the year, there is some combination drug treatment that works at the early stages, that prevents the need for ventilation and thereby lowering mortality rates. That will have to be accompanied by mass and continuous testing, until we have hard evidence of any long lasting immunity emerging in those who have recovered from the virus.

There is no doubting that this is the biggest challenge to our way of life in 100 years. And getting back to normal is going to depend on a lot of things we have no control over and many other things that we do. Until we have a vaccine, or drug treatment that works, a lot of things are going to be framed by the risk we face. And when I say we, that is not going to be everyone facing equal risk. So what kind of society will that lead to? And what kind of protections will we have in place to level out the additional inequality created by that. Then of course there will be the paranoia that will set in. Some people may never get too close to another person forever! So my view is that a vaccine can not come quick enough, but they take years to develop. The fastest new viral vaccine ever developed is one for Ebola and that took five years. Bearing in mind that SARS Cov still has no vaccine, I would be cautious about any claim that says we can get there in 18 months, although there is a lot of existing research around SARS viruses and vaccine development to draw upon, which may help speed things up. At the moment, we are simply trying to buy time and avoid a second wave. But in all honesty, I don't think life is going to be normal for some time. The virus is one thing, the economic damage is another. As for Trump, his press conferences are just vacuous waffle most of the time. He is not very bright really.

Yes it has fallen, along with some other injuries people arrive at A+E with, following pub fights, street robbery, road accidents and from playing sports. I think Police may have a busy time over the weekend breaking up gatherings.

Even if any MP argued for full privatisation of the NHS, there will be no public appetite for that after this pandemic. You only have to see the grim picture emerging from the USA to see the failings of their healthcare system. Completely agree that big pharma is where the push will be. This is where the focus should be in watching trade talks moving forward. Worth pointing out too that pharmaceuticals are our biggest export after motor vehicles to the EU. So we are also in this game. But the issue around patents and licensing is what shapes that game. Another thing to watch will be who monopolises any effective treatment or vaccine that emerges for COVID19. The ethical approach would be waiver patents and licensing (and some pharma companies may well do that) but research and development is a very expensive thing and pharma companies rely on the profits they make from that licensing to pay for that. We already have people dying from conditions that can be treated, because either they or their health care systems can not afford to pay for the drugs that could be used to treat them. So we shall see.

Point taken Plough Man. Hard to not be pompous with Uncleglen though, given his disdain for anyone outside of his right wing political views.

I agree. But to be fair to government, things have moved so fast that developing policy that takes consideration of all the different impacts is an impossible task. This is why things change daily following the flagging of issues by various professional bodies. For example, social workers are starting to raise concerns about children at risk, that they can not visit and whom are not being send to the school options open to them. The last place you want a child at risk to be, is in the home for 24 hours a day. The same is true of those in care homes that do not understand what is happening and why relatives can not visit. All of these things are challenges.

He will stay in intensive care either way until he is clear of the virus now. That is the protocol. There is an upside to this though. He will come out of hospital as a PM who has a full understanding of not only the dangers of this virus, but also of how hard NHS staff are working and what they are risking in terms of their own health and well being (both mental and physical). And this may well have a bearing (in a positive way) on government policy moving forward.

Oh behave Uncleglen. Boris did not get a majority of votes cast at the general election. A third of the electorate did not vote at all. Of 49 million eligible votes, he got 13,491,087. That's about 25% of eligible voters. Stop embarrassing yourself with ridiculous claims. It is only the nuances of our FPTP electoral system that enables a party to get a majority of seats with less than 50% of the votes cast. Things would look rather different if we had PR. A coalition would have easily kept the Tories out of government.