Blah Blah

And that older generation probably won't live to see the consequences of their vote. They are harking back to some mythical era that never really exisited, the post war boom, as though that is some fixed model that can be regained and maintained forever. As you say, economies cycle, and that is the case whether we are part of the EU or not. There is no logic to the idea that the EU is the source of so many woes. I would go further and say that many leave voters didn't even consider the economics, or had no understanding of that. I agree that the divisions will run deep for a long time, but I disagree that predictors of outcomes are those who reject reasoned and well researched views. It is the lack of research and in some case downright deliberate lies that have put us in this mess. Those who do know what they were talking about were rejected - experts were belittled. And the real source of our woes, an inbalanced economy where big business offshores huge amounts of money out of the economy, is not going to change because we leave the EU.

A lot of Putin's popularity is due to the failure of Glasnost. Capitalism did not work for ordinary Russians. They went from state stability to not being paid and having to sell their possessions to eat, while the oligarchs rose, buying up the shares given to the people (in previously state owned industries) for peanuts. Along comes Putin, kicks out the Oligarchs and restores the communist state. The people were relieved. This is what the west never understands. We think that all the world needs is Western capitalism to make everyone happy. It is nonsense.

But this is also true of the government who have no majority. Labour are not in power so don't have to actually do anything or settle on any one direction right now. I completely agree though that Corbyn has fudged the issue from day one of his leadership. He has always been a eurosceptic in a party that is not. But even the governments own findings say there is no economic benefit to leaving the EU. The only question is how long it takes leave voters to understand this.

SpringTime Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- 'We should expect the Russian regime to be irate. They've suffered close to pointless NATO confrontation for decades; missile systems on their doorstep, a pathetic number of UK troops stationed in the Baltic for poorly considered reasons, Western powers supporting the wrong side in Syria etc. I'd expect them to be flexing their muscles...' Is this a serious response?

Not sure he asked for proof, rather details of the government investigation and response. It is clear enough that the nerve agent was a Russian product. He was doing ok at PMQs until he steered into a line about chemical weapons per se (which takes us into a number of foreign affairs territories and arms sales debates). At that point I felt he was using the issue to score points on other areas he would rather be arguing about.

So May has anounced 3 immediate diplomatic expulsions, and has raised various issues with the UN and other bodies. Will Putin care? I think not.

It could take as long as three years to follow through all the processes to a CPO if Meadow decide to be obstinate. So this could take a while. I really hope it doesn't. I don't follow football, but any business (and I guess even DH is a business) will suffer if decamped for that length of time. There is more at risk that just the actual land and ground from this.

I think that is right Louisa. we are pretty much limited in what action we can take and Putin knows it. He doesn't really care what the world thinks anyway, and is keen to remind the world of Russia's military strength when challenged. This is a familiar road. I am guessing that action will start with tit for tat expulsion of diplomats. Sanctions of an economic type are more tricky, because we are not a global power anymore, and we are leaving the biggest economic alliance in Europe (in the world in fact). May might talk tough (as she always does) but the tenticles of power don't lie with politicians anymore, but global business, and obscene wealth in the hands of an increasing few.

Guy Verhofstadt actually talks a lot of sense and has a clear idea of how a transitionary phase could be used to negotiate trade for example.

To be fair DF, the OP did not specify local or otherwise. And there are lots of good suggestions there, at differing price ranges, which is a display of the forum being helpful. ?50 a head would be too much for many people, but as a special one off treat? Our fav place is just ?12.50 a head - so there is something for every budget out there. I'm not quite sure why any of that should be an issue.

We'll bring the family too. Meadow have behaved outrageously, simply because they could not get their own way with planning. Another spiteful profiteering developer with no interest in local communities.

On the news now. Council are going to try and force Meadow to sell the land to the council, with a CPO being the last resort. Meadow can't win on this.

We always go to patisserie valerie in soho - very reasonable at ?25 for two and more than enough to eat.

But that is exactly the point Poch. There has been anti EU headlines going back decades blaming every woe of the land on the EU. The ref campaign did little to offer any kind of detailed, informative and balanced debate either. Those people in Cornwall never for once considered the massive annual subsidy given to them by the EU, if they even knew about it.

LOL, yes, that about sums it up John lol

Except the demographics of leave voters swing hugely to the over 45's and no-one in their right mind seriously thinks pensioners are going to be out rioting. There might be isolated incidents, but significant rioting I think not. Besides, the predictions could not be clearer. There is no economic benefit to leaving the EU, none whatsoever. And if the UK can not get an exemption to Trump's steel tariffs, there are going to be serious problems for Britians steel sector who export high quality steel to the US.

Yes, the impacts of all of this are endless. Still, a price worth paying for not having anyone to work on our farms eh?

The moves by Trumo to impose tariffs on steel and aluminium also signal the danger in thinking we are going to be able to replace lost trade deals with the EU by cosy trade deals with big markets elsewhere.

Either that or farmers will diversify into other crops and leave some types of fruit to be imported. There is still no guarantee from government that they are even going to maintain existing subsidies once we have left the EU. And some farms may well go out of business. Agriculture is one of the major sectors they need to find some agreemnt with the EU on in my opinion. Car manufacturing is another obvious one. Leave supporters have to be sensible about these things.

Pick your own is usually reserved for the fields where the level of fruit is no longer enough for the pickers to meet the levels of produce needed by retailers. In terms of harvest, Strawberries peak around June, raspberries July. Red and blackcurrents all summer. Raspberries pay the most because they are the most delicate to pick. But all this stuff was paid peacemeal in the past, as malumbu points out, usually to local casual workers. Picking would start really early in the morning (6am) and be done by lunchtime, and we always had more people than we needed turn up. To put this in some context. A punnet of UK strawberries in a supermarket costs maybe ?2? At most ?1 goes to the producer. An average worker might pick a tray of punnets an hour in peak harvest (strawberries have to be picked with a stem). A tray holds 12 punnets. So lets say ?12 is the income to the farm for that one hour of work by that worker. Out of that has to come the costs of growing the strawberries (months of work) and other business costs. When you look at the production costs of each hectare compared to labour costs, you begin to see why margins are so narrow. And also, that margin is only achieved if the picker meets targets. But there is also a limit to that human productivity on a farm.

JohnL Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Well Gove now wants to bring in loads of foreign > farm workers. > > https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/gove-call > s-for-thousands-of-foreign-workers-to-continue-to- > be-allowed-to-come-to-britain-after-a3770941.html > > They may not want to come ! > > 'However, he argued that in the medium to long > term, Britain?s farmers had to move away from a > ?relatively labour intensive model? to a ?more > capital intensive? approach.' > > What does the above mean - robots ? He clearly understands nothing about farming. Pretty much every area that can be mechanised, has been. But there are many soft crops that can not be picked by machine. Fruit is an obvious one, but something like lettuce, also has to be hand picked. There is a machine that runs slightly ahead of the pickers with a conveyor belt onto which they put the lettuce when it is picked. Inside that machine are other workers wrapping and packing the lettuce for shipping. Picking lettuce is back breaking. Those workers have to also be quick and accurate. These are not desirable jobs for anyone, let alone a population that sends half it's young to University. The harsh realisy is that these jobs re never going to be above min wage. Huge areas of farming is subsidised anyway. My parents are farmers. It is not a lucrative existence by any means. And to unclegen, this fantasy that leaving the EU will push wages up is just that. Economies don't work in isolation. If the cost of production is not competitive we simply end up importing more. If anything, the single market has done more to protect trade between it's internal members from outside competition than the other way around.

Uncleglen should look at the interview between Andrew Marr and James Dyson and then tell us all how we are going to pay for public services when James Dyson gets his wish of no corporation tax.

Vicki Mills and Renata Hamvas are the two councillors who reported this. I am sure they would be more than happy to hear from you.