Blah Blah

Except the demographics of leave voters swing hugely to the over 45's and no-one in their right mind seriously thinks pensioners are going to be out rioting. There might be isolated incidents, but significant rioting I think not. Besides, the predictions could not be clearer. There is no economic benefit to leaving the EU, none whatsoever. And if the UK can not get an exemption to Trump's steel tariffs, there are going to be serious problems for Britians steel sector who export high quality steel to the US.

Yes, the impacts of all of this are endless. Still, a price worth paying for not having anyone to work on our farms eh?

The moves by Trumo to impose tariffs on steel and aluminium also signal the danger in thinking we are going to be able to replace lost trade deals with the EU by cosy trade deals with big markets elsewhere.

Either that or farmers will diversify into other crops and leave some types of fruit to be imported. There is still no guarantee from government that they are even going to maintain existing subsidies once we have left the EU. And some farms may well go out of business. Agriculture is one of the major sectors they need to find some agreemnt with the EU on in my opinion. Car manufacturing is another obvious one. Leave supporters have to be sensible about these things.

Pick your own is usually reserved for the fields where the level of fruit is no longer enough for the pickers to meet the levels of produce needed by retailers. In terms of harvest, Strawberries peak around June, raspberries July. Red and blackcurrents all summer. Raspberries pay the most because they are the most delicate to pick. But all this stuff was paid peacemeal in the past, as malumbu points out, usually to local casual workers. Picking would start really early in the morning (6am) and be done by lunchtime, and we always had more people than we needed turn up. To put this in some context. A punnet of UK strawberries in a supermarket costs maybe ?2? At most ?1 goes to the producer. An average worker might pick a tray of punnets an hour in peak harvest (strawberries have to be picked with a stem). A tray holds 12 punnets. So lets say ?12 is the income to the farm for that one hour of work by that worker. Out of that has to come the costs of growing the strawberries (months of work) and other business costs. When you look at the production costs of each hectare compared to labour costs, you begin to see why margins are so narrow. And also, that margin is only achieved if the picker meets targets. But there is also a limit to that human productivity on a farm.

JohnL Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Well Gove now wants to bring in loads of foreign > farm workers. > > https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/gove-call > s-for-thousands-of-foreign-workers-to-continue-to- > be-allowed-to-come-to-britain-after-a3770941.html > > They may not want to come ! > > 'However, he argued that in the medium to long > term, Britain?s farmers had to move away from a > ?relatively labour intensive model? to a ?more > capital intensive? approach.' > > What does the above mean - robots ? He clearly understands nothing about farming. Pretty much every area that can be mechanised, has been. But there are many soft crops that can not be picked by machine. Fruit is an obvious one, but something like lettuce, also has to be hand picked. There is a machine that runs slightly ahead of the pickers with a conveyor belt onto which they put the lettuce when it is picked. Inside that machine are other workers wrapping and packing the lettuce for shipping. Picking lettuce is back breaking. Those workers have to also be quick and accurate. These are not desirable jobs for anyone, let alone a population that sends half it's young to University. The harsh realisy is that these jobs re never going to be above min wage. Huge areas of farming is subsidised anyway. My parents are farmers. It is not a lucrative existence by any means. And to unclegen, this fantasy that leaving the EU will push wages up is just that. Economies don't work in isolation. If the cost of production is not competitive we simply end up importing more. If anything, the single market has done more to protect trade between it's internal members from outside competition than the other way around.

Uncleglen should look at the interview between Andrew Marr and James Dyson and then tell us all how we are going to pay for public services when James Dyson gets his wish of no corporation tax.

Vicki Mills and Renata Hamvas are the two councillors who reported this. I am sure they would be more than happy to hear from you.

Agree with both of you. We need to break down the economic language into relevant day-to-day costs of living. I agree with you Loz in that it seems it doesn't matter how much we point out that the people most likely to suffer are places like Cornwall and the North East, until it happens, they won't get it. And who will they blame then? The Nissan thing is significant. It is blatently clear that they were promised continued access to the single market and it is also clear there is a chance the government won't deliver that. There are still Tory hard brexiters dismissing any idea that we will lose the Japanese and German car manufacturing sector, because we import so many cars from Germany that the EU will do a free trade deal on that. But in all of this, they keep forgetting that all EU members are bound by a set of rules on trade and if we are able to leave and get our cake and eat it, there is nothing to stop other EU members doing the same. This is why the EU will self preserve, even if it contracts some of their major exports to us. Brits will still buy BMW, they will just be paying tariffs on top. The Japanese however, do not have to put up with tariffs on most of the cars we export to the EU, they can just move the plants, and we will pay tariffs on those cars if we want them too. What angers me most is the political self preservation going on in government. May is completely caught in a bear trap (of her own making), too afraid to put her foot down on people like Bojo and Rees Mogg for fear of a leadership challenge. I really do think that in her mind, she believes she can remain leader of the Tory party into the next election. The truth is that the Tory party has never been able to resolve its split on Europe and there is no reason to think they can do so now. And while they try to figure that out, the clock is ticking and the focus is not where it should be.

This is a local councillor report on the event which will hopefully reassure of any concerns; Music festival Peckham Rye Park ? May 27-28 The festival is planned for Sunday 27th May and Monday 28th May. Sunday will be for over 18s only and alcohol can be served until 10pm; while Monday will be a family friendly folk music event with up to 3 children allowed per adult. Alcohol can be served until 9.30pm on Monday. Music will cease half an hour after the alcohol sales. Maximum sound at the nearest properties is expected to reach 67 to 73 decibels. An absolute maximum of 75 decibels has been set, this level must not be exceeded at any time at the closest residential properties and reading levels will be available to the police and Southwark officers. Tickets will be sold in advance on-line and residents in the 200 closest properties will be offered free tickets. There will be a maximum of 8000 tickets per day, including complimentary ones. A time limited license was granted by the Licensing Committee last week, 51 conditions were agreed between officers and the event organisers, ?We are the Fair?, with an additional 8 added by the Licensing Committee. The conditions include a detailed ingress, egress and dispersal policy including a public transport plan which must be approved by Licensing, the Environmental Protection Team and the Police, at least 6 weeks before the event. Southwark Highways and Parking also must be consulted and their advice implemented for the event to take place. Set entry and egress routes will be used to minimise damage to the park and the operators will make good any damage. A deposit has also been taken. The event has moved from Brockwell Park to Peckham Rye Park as a much larger event is being held in Brockwell Park on the 1-3 June and will be being set up from end of May. The organisers of the event "We are the Fair" have won awards for their good practice in the running of outdoor events We have both raised a number of concerns with officers and it has been agreed that ? The cancelled stakeholder meeting is urgently rearranged. The cancelled Stakeholder Meeting planned for 24 Jan must be urgently rearranged, and this meeting must include local residents. And in the meantime responses to the queries raised at the December stakeholder meeting are circulated. These included concerns around damage/damage deposit, noise, dispersal, transport etc. Further queries raised by FoPRP and councillors around transport and dispersal, damage deposits, parking, investment into the park will be responded to as soon as possible. Both the council and We Are The Fair need to engage with local residents, many of whom will still be unaware of the festival. This could include a letter, meeting, FAQs online etc. This will be agreed and finalised at the stakeholder meeting. Anecdotally, many residents we have spoken to are excited about the prospect of the festival and coupled with the requirements that We Are The Fair provide work opportunities for local people and use local food and drink companies, it could and should be a good cultural event for our part of the borough. However, if the festival isn?t well run, the opportunity to have good events that support local cultural and arts groups and the local economy will be lost.

But those people don't want to listen to any kind of reasonable analysis. It is partly the problem of goldfish bowl understanding of impact. Thinkgs like GDP and growth go over the heads of a lot of people who only measure an economy by how well they personally are doing. And of course, throughout history, the establishment have made a good job of scapegoating foreigners whenever economic decline sets it. Both world wars were preceeded by a period of severe economic decline and a rise of nationalism. If we are going to cut through the leave supporter lack of reason, we have to try and understand why they are so hell bent on risking the economy for eradication of foreign influence.

Exactly rendel and that is before we get to how horses are used in hunting as well. It is not about pest control at all. Foxes that are worrying livestock are usally shot and that is far easier to do than chasing it down with a pack of hounds and horses. A lot of country people don't like fox hunting. They see it for what it is. On your cat Stringvest. You could try only letting him out only at certain times of day or night. He will establish a route for for himself that he will take every time, so he will never be that far away. You could even fit a tracker to his collar if you want to see just where he goes :)

I take your points Dave. I am opposed to hunting. I grew up on a farm and have seen what hounds do. We don't have to keep dogs in packs anymore. They can be domesticated (although some breeds more than others). But I have also seen what foxes and mink do to chickens. On cats, they seem less likely to hunt birds in the countryside because there are so many rodents around (just my experience). Birds are hard for cats to catch, much harder than a rodent. But I understand the controversy around cats and birds. And yes, my parents won't tolerate a hunt on their farmland, and the local hunt know it.

Agreed on the DUP and prior agreements. Also worrying noises from Japan that they will relocate all car plants if the UK does not have access to the single market (I have been warning of that since the beginning and we all know that Nissan was promised access to the single market to get them to stay). I think there is real threat behind this especially because of the trade deal Japan has now agreed with the EU. So all in all, I can not see how the government can survive any deal that removes access to the single market and has no form of customs union - or a free trade deal at least, in relation to the car industry. On Terry Christian, we have seen week after week, audiences filled with leave supporters almost aggressive in tone, who dismiss any attempt to engage them with the practical detail of leaving, yet expect remain supporters to accept their unsubstantiated views of 'everything will just be better'. Christian was standing up to that, and it was good to see someone on a panel do so. This is precisely why many have the view that leave supporters per se, have little understanding of the complexity of this. They don't like any scrutiny of what they actually understand.

uncleglen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Oh the irony. Your precious cats are major hunters in the world.....seems only fair that they should > get some of their own medicine! Completely uneccesary comment. There is a huge difference between an animal hunting from hard wired instinct and hounds being bred to kill.

Monotheism though is a relatively recent concept. It is not hard to see why a stage of civilisation who had no understanding yet of what the sun was, the shape of the universe etc, but knew it had power over their crops growing, would invent a sun god. Humans have a need to understand things. In the absence of science to provide explanation, mankind just made things up instead. This is how we end up with 'Genesis'. The problem is that even science can not break long held beliefs in some cultures. This is how you end up with creationism so easily dismissing the science of genetics. On the flip side though, most scientific discovery begins with a theory. Religion and science share this starting point. Science then sets out to prove that theory and will drop it if disproved. This is where religion and science part ways. Religion is not able to reassess it's core beliefs in the same way that science is. For me, relgion has little to do with the scientific pursuit of alternate states of consciousness. Either those alternate states exist, or they don't.

Taco Queen is one of our favs. Great cocktails and very reasonably priced food. Always full.

Wow. What a good looking little fella he is! Great pic too :)

Penguin68 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- A large number of people in the > nineteenth century and before believed that they > woke up to find a hag or phantom on their chest - > in the 20th century and now that has segued into > beliefs in alien abduction. The hag or phantom on the chest is a well known experience of sleep paralysis. Many people still suffer from it today and it can be a very frightening experience. 'Sleep paralysis is a feeling of being conscious but unable to move. It occurs when a person passes between stages of wakefulness and sleep. During these transitions, you may be unable to move or speak for a few seconds up to a few minutes. Some people may also feel pressure or a sense of choking.' There is ongoing neurological research into the condition. Lucid hallucinations, involving people and creatures are a symptom. We still have a lot to learn about the mind. Alternate states of consciousness do exist, even if we don't have an explanation for them. Ghosts may well be another state of alternate consciousness. But given that there are many shared experiences of sightings of particular ghosts, it can't be just dismissed as random hallucination. Before the invention of mangnification, there was no way to see most of the things that are accepted as science now. There is not reason to think we just haven't deveoped the instruments to measure what ghosts are.

Have you thought of researching the genealogy of the house ecarg? Research all the people who have lived there since it was built and see if any of them have interesting stories that might connect to any strange experiences. There is a brilliant four part documentary on bbc2 iplayer called 'A House Through Time' which does just this. It seems fairly easy to find the tenants/ owners through the census records and electoral rolls.

Happened to me many years ago on the Old Kent Road. I went over the handlebars and car door and fortunately not under the travelling car that my bicycle then hit. That driver had no wing mirror, was stopped in a bus lane and didn't look properly. The driver of the other car, that was damaged by my bicycle, was furious with him and called the Police. In the end he was fined and given points. Hope the young lad is ok and more importantly, is not put off from cycling as a result. It is the responsibility of the driver to make sure it is safe for passengers to exit their vehicle and hopefully a lesson has been learned there too.

Everything from your curt response to me was deleted. You provoked that exchange. If you are an arse to people they will respond in kind. But who cares anyway? Move on.

Don't start again Sue. You were rude, called out on it and then posted insane crap and deserved the response you got. Take responsibilty for your own sarcasm and tone. You seem to get into fracas quite easily.