david_carnell

In relation to hunting, Declan, I would imagine (and any members of a hunt can feel free to correct me) that the enjoyment is all in the chase. It is unlikely more than one or two members would even get to see the fox killed since, over the course of a ride, the hunt gets spread out. I don't think it takes much imagination to understand the thrill of riding at high speed o'er hill and down dale, leaping hedges and whatnot, whilst getting to play dress-up for a day and get a bit squiffy at the end of it. Merely it is the end result that some folk find distasteful, namely the killing of a fox. That, and a bit of class warfare for good measure. And who doesn't like annoying braying toffs? I can see parallels with bull fighting - and not just in the silly outfits. It's a cultural tradition (no doubt passed from fathers to sons in some instances) that rallies communities. Over a million people marched into London because of that sense of unity. Vegetarianism is a whole different thread methinks....

Mr Max....

I don't like the fact you found a hospital-based clip where someone called David dies! But I'm willing to believe it was coincidence.....this time.

annaj Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'm enjoying it very much, djfitz. > Especially all the wobbly, hand-held camera, > nostril shots and the way that it implies that > pretty nurses manage major trauma all on ther own > with no help whatsoever from the less photogenic > doctors in the background. Bitter, moi?! Hehe...we'll make a tabloid star of you yet, Anna.

I'm just imagining all this off-topic guff being put in an A-Level essay. Essentially it's what I did for two years..... .....in retrospect, that probably explains a lot.

Yeah, what have the ever done for us?

David Mitchell on Woolworths (from Sunday's Observer)....on the money

Moos Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > David, your main argument appears to be that bull > fighting is OK because cruelty to children is > worse. > > Stick to the chuffing point. > > And your ancillary argument is a rather weedy > "define torture". The point of cooking shellfish > is so that they are cooked and can be eaten. It > takes a couple of minutes. The point of killing > bulls is for its own sake, it is a 'competition' > with a pre-defined result. It can take quite a > long time, and whether or not it's torture it is > inflicting pain and prolonged suffering for > entertainment*. This is what we have been asked > to opine upon. > > Whether or not little old ladies or hulking young > toffs should give their cheques to donkey > sanctuaries or to the NSPCC is just so much guff > in this particular discussion. > > *I guess that gives you a fairly good > understanding of my viewpoint... Ok, now just hold on a mo. Firstly, I made it perfectly clear that my arguments had flaws and were not suitable for academic discourse. They were merely my (not so) humble opinions on the matter. Secondly, you know full well that even with the above proviso my main argument was not that "it's ok to torture bulls because child abuse is worse" - you're being deliberately obtuse. I do not take pleasure in seeing animals harmed. I don't laugh manically whilst throwing bags of kittens into flooded mineshafts. I can just think of things I'd rather wring my hands over. Whilst the bull is going to die one way or another the result is not quite "pre-determined" - otherwise deaths of matadors would not occur. They do. And my ancillary points are not guff. They highlight the essence of my feeling on the matter in hand. Which is, quite frankly, meh. I don't care. At all. It's not my idea of a fun day out for the family but I'm not getting into a moral pickle over it. I couldn't give a stuff about a few cows to be honest. And before you run off and reduce this argument to the absurd and starting lobbing moralistic artillery in my direction with stuff about dog fighting or bear baiting, stop. I know. But I still don't care. At all.

Go away, Simon.

I'd call be dropped in boiling water tortuous as well but shellfish seem to get a raw deal (if you pardon the pun). It's all a matter of perspective. The lancing weakens the bulls stamina and increases it's liklihood of charging. The matador then finishes it quite quickly with a sword. Animals are beaten every day. Think what jockeys do to a horse. I rather think that the English are horribly sentimental when it comes to animal welfare. It's why the hedgehog and donkey sanctuaries of this country are inundated with cheques from little old ladies whilst charities dealing with certain human issues are scrabbling around for cash. I don't get enojoyment from animal cruelty but I just wish people would care about more important things.

I think "torture" may be a tad hyperbolic.

Ah, you may be confusing it with NFN which stands (and I may be corrected by the resident forum medics) "Normal for Norfolk" - i.e. a loon

I can't say it bothers me. I don't approve of it but I'd find it very difficult to get worked up over or upset about. It isn't cruelty on an industrial scale (in the same way battery farming is) and a skilled matador kills the bull in a quick and humane manner. I rather enjoy the aesthetics of it. Man vs Beast. The pomp - playing dress up, the baying crowd, the almost balletic foreplay before the bull's death, that sort of thing. And I suppose the cultural tradition of the whole thing is quite appealing too. I'm fully aware of the flaws in all these arguments and wouldn't offer them as academic make-weights. Nonetheless, they work for me. I suppose the cynic in me says that there are far more worthy causes in the world to put your effort into than this. In the same way I found the endles debate over fox-hunting quite dull when human poverty remains paramount, the same applies here.

Oh joy. And after yesterday's performance I'm actually dreading watching this. Our FA Cup history of recent years is woeful.

Yes please, Michael.

Can our very own GigGirl put up her record against this man? Impressive stuff. Not sure I agree with his taste though.

I want to go to their Xmas party. With Take That and those M&S women. It looks like fun.

An image??? Do you mean like a family photo? Hmmmm. Do we get a round-robin letter as well informing us just how well the Moosling is doing in pre-school French too? ;-) Moos Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Noooooooooo..... > > I haven't even got an image for my cards yet. > Help help help.

Or you could be a lookout. Like a human meercat.

It is NOT Bournemouth.

I expect it'll take place directly after that game. Fancy an away trip to Elland Rd, Simon? Nah, didn't think so.

Or, if you watched Survivors last night, you have the early symptons of European Flu and we're all going to die. Have a nice day.

For all you Premiership glory boys: Should you wish to see what a real, modern football match looks like these days may I suggest you plonk yourself in front of ITV1 next Sunday at 11am(!) for the FA Cup 2nd Round clash of the titans as the mighty, mighty Leeds United take on the footballing giant that is, err, Histon Town. Ahh, the magic of the FA Cup....oh god, we're going to lose aren't we?!

That haka and subsequent stand-off in the NZ v Wales game at the weekend was awesome. I can't believe anyone would suggest abolishing it. What is this....football? For girls? In pink? http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44236000/jpg/_44236114_mathieu300.jpg Oh, apparantly it is.

I saw it and thought....meh. It was ok. Fairly untaxing to watch and midly entertaining but the script was iffy and it was too long. The only relief came with the new added twist at the end. Plus, it wasn't the most uplifting Sunday night viewing. The next time I get the sniffles though I'm gonna be shitting myself.... On an aside, I did realise I'd be next to useless come armageddon. I have very few practical skills that would come in handy. I can shoot a gun quite well (if I could get my hands on one), I can drive (should there be any cars/petrol left) but otherwise I terribly modern and gizmo centred. Perhaps an evening class in butchery, horticulture and building structures from mud and straw may be in order.