david_carnell

No formal warning but this might amuse you. Daily Mail/London Lite headline machine

It is and it isn't disengenuous. GigGirl made the point that it was a thin end of the wedge and could never be got rid of. My point was that it could be. A the fact that the electoral system prevents the third largest political party getting electoral credibility isn't really the issue. Either it's a big enough deal for people to vote against the government on, or it's not. Iraq was the same. Lot's of people made lots of noise about it but really, when it came down to it, did Labour suffer in the following election. Not really. Oona King got a kicking from her constituency and the father of a dead soldier made Blair look a bit sheepish on the platform; otherwise it wasn't an important enough issue. As for your point on more deaths from paracetamol or heat death - now who's being disengenuous? Are you implying that more resources should b put into highlighting the health implications of od-ing on painkillers. Goodness knows what the "we hate the nanny state" brigade would think of that one. If a grown adult wants to guzzle a bottle of calpol, let him etc etc. Your comment on the Provos is more on the money but I'd offer the following clarifications - those with more knowledge on the subject may well set me straight if any of this is incorrect: The majority of IRA terrorism took place in Northern Ireland, against Northern Irish citizens. Most IRA attacks on the mainland were aimed at authority figures (politicians or the Royal Family) or organisations (the police, the finance cos in Canary Wharf) not the general public (obviously there are notable exceptions to this - Manchester for example) Most attacks were preceded by a warning The current crop of extremists do none of these things. Therefore different measures are needed. The IRA didn't have hundreds of computer disks with thousands of documents on that needed to be analysed during a custodial period. 7 days isn't always enough to do this. Perhaps longer is occasionally needed. Is an independent, politically neutral judicial system able to decide when this would be appropriate? I think it is and would trust them to use a longer detention periods judiciously. Churchill's personal contribution to the victory in WW2 is debatable and he was turfed out of office at the first chance by the electorate. He was also the first to use chemical warfare on northern Iraqi tribesmen. I wouldn't bandy him about as some totem of political decency just becuase he's highly quotable. So was Oscar WIlde and I wouldn't use him to beat suicide bombers. ;-) Finally, taking a swipe at the British Empire's track record on human rights is an easy target - I'd expect better from you than the rather simplified polemic of rape and pillage that you describe above.

giggirl Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The so called "war against terror" has been used > as an excuse to pass new laws which erode our > civil liberties. And it is the thin end of the > wedge. Once those laws are on the statute book > they can be used for whatever purpose they can be > made to fit. > > And what is this "war against terror" - our > parents and grandparents came through two world > wars for goodness sake. I'm genuinely torn on this subject and still find myself swayed to both sides of the argument on different occassions. With that clarifier aside, however, I feel I should comment on this. These laws are not the thin end of any wedge. They can be repealed at any time by any government. At the next election, vote LibDem. They voted against this legislation and it's not difficult to get rid of it. Secondly, "the war on terror" is perhaps evocative phraseology. However, if you believe that domestic terrorism is not a serious threat to the citizens of Britain then you are very mis-guided. Senior figures in authority believe that a massive terrorist incident in this country is inevitable and is going to happen sooner rather than later. I am inclined to agree. I don't think this government has always done the right thing when dealing with this threat. Some of the measures enacted are ill-thought out and risk alienating communities whose help we will need to root out terrorists in our midst. But, and this is a big but, to do nothing would be the greatest sin of all. Funding to the security services has massivley increased and police presence at stations and airports is now mandatory. The schism of losing liberties to defend lives is incredibly complex and I think politicians are tasked with an increidbly difficult job in trying to do so. And the enemies in two world wars dressed in a uniform with big swastika on it. They were quite easy to spot. You also seem to forget the internment of Anglo-Germans on the Isle of Man during the war. The Americans did a similar thing to Japanese-Americans. Desperate times call for desperate measures etc. I don't condone those measures but to imply that civil liberties weren't eroded in the past in periods of national crisis is looking at the past with rose-tinted vision.

Bad girl. ;-)

Thanks Ashkhan. HAdn't really considered all those options. Plus the license as well. Good job I'm not an economist or a publican.

Did you not see my picture at the top of Bachelor vs Spinster thread? B)

To add fuel to the fire

Incitatus Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > As a small footnote, one Italia 90 England squad > member had a terrible and rather apt finish to his > time abroad. > > Long after Italia 90 Tony Dorigo joined manager > Souness on one of his many sojourns abroad in > Seria B at Torino. In a penalty shoot out in the > play off for promotion to Seria A, -all previous > 9 penalties successfully converted- up steps the > England player and he promptly rockets it wide and > then quickly heads back home to Derby County. As a Leeds fan, I won't have a bad word said against the man. The mulleted Aussie is a bit of a cult hero at Elland Road although weirdly I once met him as a child (me, not him) whislt he was still playing for CSKA Fulham. Nice bloke. Doesn't surprise me he was shit at penalties though.

Or queer. Or faggot. Other than borrowing from Italy, what better suggestion do you have for those of the female gender who decide of their own free will to remain single but may occasionally shag some bloke if they've drunk enough Lambrini on a night out! ;-)

Well actually, Jah, if we're being pedantic (despite my post saying "...or went on afterwards to play overseas") Chris waddle was at Marseille between 1989-92 which by my guess would make him a Marseille player during the 1990 World Cup. Edit: Oh, and Lineker was at Barca until 1989 - so he played overseas before as well. My point was that they were of good enough quality to succeed wherever they played. I don't know whether many of the current England team would be able to do the same (a la Owen). Rooney perhaps and also Joe Cole. Good ball players. The rest I think would struggle with the continental game.

Keef Couldn't agee more mate. In recent years there has been a real dearth of Englishmen abroad. Yet at Italia 90 quite a few had overseas experience or went on to play overseas. If memory serves (and I was only 7 at the time!): Walker (Sampadoria), Linekar (Barcelona & Grampas8), Gazza (Lazio), Waddle (Marseille), Platt (Sampadoria), Beardsley (Vancouver). Recent successful exports seem to have been few and far between. McManaman did ok at Real but Owen and Woodgate were largely unsuccessful. Becks was hit and miss. Hargreaves was excellent at Bayern but he's Canadian. Every other league seems to have representation in the Premiership yet we don't seem to have much of one in La Liga or Seria A. Why?

Hehehe....google image search gives the following: Bachelor Spinster: http://www.takeourword.com/images/spinster.jpg Maybe it's becaus secretly all men want to sleep around and be foot-loose and fancy free - they think they still have "it" no matter how old they are and therefore could have any women of their choosing. Most are more Bernard Manning than George Clooney however. Whilst women are all desperate to get married and settle down to a life of shackled marital bliss. If this doesn't happen by 30 they turn into the above picture overnight. Admin - can you re-size the top photo so he's not so goddamn scary with those perfect teeth and dreamy blue eyes! * no probs, took an artistic licence to make him a bit tubbier though *

Talking of which, the Pulp Fiction soundtrack (an absolute belter) has another couple of great tracks:

Leftover roast beef sandwiches with rocket, tomato and lashings of horseradish sauce on wholemeal bread. And a twix. Mmmm.

White soul, eh? Brad Prowly is quite good for a hobo I suppose. And funny. Dusty Springfield - Son of a Preacher Man

I with Keith and Kel... "Thundercats are on the move, Thundercats are loose, Feel the magic, hear the Roar, Thundercats are loose" To which end you may or may not be interested in these: Thundercats - The Movie!

It's Friday! Rock it loud, yeah! B) Queens of the Stone Age - No One Knows Wolfmother - Woman

I don't think it counts if you use a machine. Surely Daddy Dale would decree that all loaves must be hand-kneaded for true prowess in the bakers' art.

I think the term you were looking for is "bitch", Alan. Ready when you are.

Oh, god - I feel like a right prat. Apologies to all. :-$ How did that happen?

Not wanting to sound bitter but.... I beat you to this a few days ago. Bloody funny though.

Little known nugget of pop trivia: "Hit Me Baby..." was originally written for TLC but reports vary as to whether they either a) turned it down, or b) the production on their album FanMail was already finished and so it couldn't go on. One wonders if Ms Spears would have quite the success she was without that track and especially that video.

For football fans, I've just finished "Just as long as you don't kiss me" which is a fascinating biogrpahy of the late Brian Clough. It charts his rise, fall, rise again and finally his alcohol wraught demise. Beautifully written and tragi-comic scenes. Emotional towards the end. Heartily recommended. It also won the William hIll Sportsbook of the Year.

Heh, well not quite. A "generation" is perhaps a bit long - epoch perhaps?! ;-) Seriously though, early nineties would mean I'm about 10 so my music knowledge was limited to my Dad's Tina Turner collection...and not even the early good stuff! I can see the influence on Garbage Elastica et al but they're not really my cuppa either so probably why Curve have remained off my radar. Just listened to some Scout Niblett(!) and quite enjoyed that. Will have a listen to Joanna Newsome later today and let you know. In the meantime I'm in the mood for something my Dad would take credit for making me listen to: Ike and Tina Turner - Proud Mary

Blimey, Piers. Maybe it's a generational thing but I didn't know one of those artists. Quite liked Mum - sort of a chilled version of Roykssop. Curve didn't do it for me I'm afraid. Nicole Atkins - well in your words - *sigh*. Talking of which, I have a strange thing for: Martha Wainwright - When the Day is Short