diable rouge

TheCat Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If the nation survived the global financial crisis > when the entire financial system was on the brink > of collapse - we will manage not being in the > European Union. Big difference, the credit crunch wasn't self-inflicted and the country wasn't divided by it. If you think it's bad now, it's going to get a lot worse whatever happens...

dbboy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > As I said previously May & Co faffed for three > years, Bojo is now enacting the outcome of the > referendum. If the govt failed to do this it would > not be doing the job it was elected to do May agreed a deal to leave, thus enacting the outcome of the referendum, it was voted for 3 times by 'traitors' like Grieve and Hammond, even Johnson and Rees Mogg flipped on the third attempt. It failed primarily because of hardcore Brexiters voting against it, knowing it could lead to no deal. Johnson is not enacting the outcome of the referendum if no deal happened, we were told there would be a deal, in Johnson's own words, ''we can have our cake and eat it'', that's what leavers voted for. I agree it can't go on, but neither can no deal be seen to be enacting the referendum...

teddyboy23 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Dr fair play to what you say.but dont you think > parliamentary democracy .went out the window some > time a go .ie elected representatives completely > ignoring the referendum result from the voters > that put them in Parliament .that's not democracy > surely.another example the latest by election > result.which the liberal democrats won.that > constituency voted leave 58% .yet the newly > elected mp straightaway saids I will do all I can > to stop brexit.that's not democracy.that's the > point I was trying to make above.was what's the > point of voting if MPs do their own thing. The problem with the referendum was that there wasn't a clear definition of what Brexit actually meant and entailed, e.g. soft, medium, hard Brexit etc. The Leave campaign said there would be a deal but didn't elaborate. So after the referendum this left it open to interpretation. May's deal honoured the referendum in that we would've left the EU, but it wasn't Brexity enough for the ERG types. The thing about elected representatives is that they can't please all their constituents, so whatever they do there will be people upset with them. There are plenty of Leave voting MPs in Remain voting constituencies. They are therefore expected to put national interest first even if it goes against their constituents wishes, knowing they can always be voted out one day. The recent Lib Dem win in Wales happened 3 years after the referendum, that tells me some people have changed their mind in that time, one of the reasons why a confirmatory referendum on any deal is a good idea. They also knew what the Lib Dems stand for, to stop Brexit. We can't keep harking back to a day over 3 years ago as if time stood still. People now know much more what Brexit entails and the economic damage it will cause, especially No Deal which wasn't even discussed during the referendum...

dbboy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > So how do you describe 1930's Germany, Hitler and > the resulting catastrophe which resulted? Clusterfuck seems appropriate, not to be confused with other clusterfucks that have happened during the history of time...

Jenny1 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I take it you've gone off the whole 'Swiss Model' > idea Dulwich Fox? Or maybe just didn't see my > question to you about it above? Google didn't have an answer to your question Jenny...

dbboy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Now, it's the inference that you clearly make Wrong, it's the inference that you clearly have made. Fascism seeks to destroy parliamentary liberalism, hence why I used it in the context of this Gov shutting down parliament. I deliberately used the term fascism in the generic term rather than a specific form of fascism. It was you that equated fascism to 'Nazi Germany'. By the way, fascism's roots are actually in Italian politics...

Not many working people bought houses back then, and a lot moved out because of the shortage of housing due to the war and general slum-like conditions. Working people buying their own homes only became popular when they could buy their council owned property under Thatcher's Right to Buy. Ironically that started the cycle of houses becoming unaffordable for future generations...

uncleglen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- ...again the Remainiacs resort to personal > insults Deja vu!...:)

Errrr, Sadiq Khan doesn't speak for me and what I wrote. Keep trying...

He doesn't even live in Dulwich. Can't confirm whether or not he's a mangy, flea ridden scavenger though...

That's still not a reference to Nazi Germany. Keep trying...

teddy, as has already been stated, that's a false equivalence, a better example would've been to ask what if Corbyn had prorogued parliament in order to get something controversial through e.g. removing the monarchy. I'm no royalist but I would still be 100% against it as it flies against how our parliamentary democracy works. We elect MPs to debate and scrutinise such proposals, and then vote on them, that's how an elected representative democracy works. Shutting down parliament stops that from happening. Only this morning Michael Gove said that the Gov could ignore any law made this week to prevent No Deal, i.e the Gov is above the Law, again another attack on our democracy. This Gov has plenty of form, here's a very good summary of how this Gov has attacked our democracy and the pillars that hold it up. I might add, written by a long-term Eurosceptic, this isn't just about Leave or Remain anymore, it's about protecting our democracy from creeping authoritarianism and fascism...https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1168108396605857792

Give Short Cummings some credit, he's done the impossible and managed to unite leave and remain voters with their objection to Prorogation. Strategic genius...

DulwichFox Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Are they all immigrants. ?? Are they all illegal > ?? NO.. Some of the owners / staff have lived > here for 40+ years. How long someone has worked and lived here has nothing to do with their status and whether our glorious Home Office will grant them permanent residency. But of course you know better and even use capitals, so it must be TRUE. Perhaps you'd like to give this lady some advice...

DulwichFox Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ETA. It is worth noting that Many openly Racist > types express the wish to Remain. Such as? Give us some actual names rather than anecdotal made-up ones...

DulwichFox Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I could not give a toss about your desire to work/ > retire in the E.U. Yypical inward thinking, isolationist, nationalistic, xenophobic pratism...

uncleglen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > here we go again remainiacs resorting to insults.. Dear Pot Only you could've written that and not realised the irony :) Love, Kettle

I didn't refer to Nazi Germany. And even if I did, why would you take offence?...

Loutwo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Come off it. These new businesses in Peckham > aren?t part and parcel of the existing community. > They?re new businesses aimed at a specific > demographic who have only very recently moved into > the neighbourhood. This is what always happens when new communities are formed, the same thing happened when the Afro-Caribbean community first rocked up. One (wo)man's gentrification is another's ghettoisation. You reek of double standards Lou...

I've lost count of the number of times Brexiters have used the veiled threat that there would be civil unrest if Brexit wasn't delivered. Whereas Remainers have demonstrated peacefully in their hundreds of thousands their opposition to Brexit and now the clear undermining of our democratic system by proroguing Parliament. We've got an unelected tinpot dictator telling Tory MPs that if they vote against No Deal they will automatically be deselected by Tory Central Office. Wake up Lou, this is how fascism creeps up, it never arrives in jackboots...

Week 4 fixtures... Saturday 3st August Southampton v Manchester United Chelsea v Sheffield United Crystal Palace v Aston Villa Leicester City v AFC Bournemouth Manchester City v Brighton & Hove Albion Newcastle United v Watford West Ham United v Norwich City Burnley v Liverpool Sunday 1st September Everton v Wolverhampton Wanderers Arsenal v Tottenham Hotspur

Just leaving this here, no prizes for guessing who said it quite recently... I would like to make it absolutely clear that I am not attracted to arcane procedures such as the prorogation of Parliament. As someone who aspires to be the PM of a democratic nation, I believe in finding consensus in the House of Commons.

DulwichFox Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > People need to get over it. If you do not like > it, go and live in The E.U. If they will have you. They won't if we Leave, because xenophobic prats like you will have taken away my right to work/retire and live there...

TheCat Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > When leavers were trumpeting the need to respect > the democracy of the referendum result, remainers > would clutch at straws like 'it was only advisory'... That was a very important point though, had the referendum not been advisory it would have been anulled due to the Leave campaign breaking electoral spending rules. The Electoral Commission's hands were tied precisely because it was ''only advisory''. > Sadly shows how toxic this entire debate has > become... Very true, but this has been the doing of the Leave side from the word go. When we needed a Gov to try and unify the country behind a version of Brexit that reflected the closeness of the vote, which a lot of Remainers would've accepted at the time, we instead got May's red lines and the voice of Remain ignored and replaced with insults such as 'citizen's of nowhere', 'queue jumpers', 'enemies of the people' and so on. Now Johnson, despite promising to do the opposite, has managed to divide the country even more. Whatever the outcome it will take a very long time to heal this disunited kingdom, what's left of it...

True dat Cat. Doesn't detract from the usual sniping comments from the usual suspects though...