Acid Casual

As I said, burglars are not content to limit themselves to reasonable force, so neither am I. No intention of ever using reasonable force if someone enters my house. Is reasonable force not some sort of contradiction in terms anyway? If the situation is reasonable, then force should be totally uncalled for. Somehow I can't imagine the cut and thrust of a good debate doing the trick in the event of stopping a burglar.

Frankly, I'd pursue someone out of my house if they had broken in.

*Bob* Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > What kind of a society are we living in where you > can't chase someone out of your house and down the > street and then hit them repeatedly on the head > with a cricket bat until their head cracks open > with the full approval of the law? > > The right one, I think. > > The law exists to differentiate between justice > and revenge - because unfortunately, there are too > many people incapable of distinguishing between > the two themselves, whether in the heat of the > moment or not. > > When those two guys caught-up with that one > burglar, self-defence of person and property > turned-into revenge.. and the law simply has > recognise that in one way or another. I think the > severity of the sentence is unfair but that > doesn't mean to say I think they deserve a medal > and tickertape parade. > > Incidentally, if my family and I had just been > tied-up and threatened with death by three armed > men, the last thing I'm sure they'd want to see me > do (should I manage to break free) is run out of > the door after them with a bat. But then I guess > I'm probably not Rambo enough for that sort-of > thing anyway. Fully agree with the sentiment *Bob* but not the reality. As I mused earlier, the problem with reasonable force is that criminals never use it. I agree that there should be boundaries of some description by law, but also think that the psychological impact of having your home invaded leaves a deep, deep scar on the honest person's psyche and well being. I'd say that you are entitled to defend your home to the extent that the intruder is incapacitated and their threat countered. Usually that means a fairly violent exchange, during which you can be sure the intruder will not have reasonable force at the forefront of their thoughts. Tell you the truth, I wouldn't either if he was in my house.

The problem with reasonable force is that burglars, muggers etc don't tend to use it. Therefore using it in response is pretty useless. Either hand over your cash/wallet/belongings or strike back in a manner over and above what the assailant themselves are comfortable with seems to be the option. Most people are unable to do the latter, so quite sensibly opt for the former, and I would not have any issue with anyone who opted to do that at all. Violence & threat are about boundaries and comfort zones. Most people are not comfortable with even the merest suggestion of either, hence why your common and garden mugger gets a pretty easy nights work usually. To me if someone enters your home and threatens you or your family, then all bets are off as far as what might be considered reasonable force. I've had two intruders enter my back garden since I've lived here. Both times I am pretty sure they had wished they had chosen another house, and I don't give an Aylesbury duck about that.

I'd quite like to meet so I can understand how to make a correct, purposeful and ultimately successful approach to whoever can do something.

No offence James, but the lighting is still bollocks. Total waste of money if it was supposed to be an improvement. Who do we contact in South Camberwell to get some action?

PeckhamRose Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Why don't you lot go to your local POLICE WARD > PANELS to ask them to concentrate on the burglary > problem? He's a councillor, not the police. He's > doing his best. Do some work you lot, research, > find out, and GO to your local police ward panels > which is the correct platform for whinging about > crime. I tend to put on the What's On section > when the Nunhead and Peckham Rye one is (which > covers a bit of East Dulwich). If you're having a go at me (and I'm not certain if you are) the old bill don't put up extra street lighting as far as I'm aware. That's what I think would go a good way towards making Greendale safer. It is about creating a safe environment in the first instance, not about response to crime. That, although very important, is another conversation, and one outside of James' remit. For what it's worth, the Camberwell robbery squad who responded to my call said they had extra undercover units in the area as a result of the recent level of incidents, so they have responded within the limits of their powers. I'm not having a go at James. The tone of my post was quite polite, I just want to know what to do.

Hello James. Glad you're making a contribution to the forum. Whilst we're on the subject of crime prevention, could you have a look at the thread on making Greendale safer? This place has violent mugging/assault written all over it. It's a serious incident waiting to happen. Given that there's a nursery school there and loads of mums/grandparents/child carers use it as access, it really needs action. The thread documents at least two prior muggings (one attempted on me at knifepoint) and I worry that next time the person at the wrong end of the mugging may not be in a position to fight back like I am able to. Thanks in advance. Acid Casual.

Is there a councillor comes on here, eh? That might be a way of gaining some momentum behind the idea. I'll happily pitch in if needed.

It is really useful. I would think that the fact that there is a nursery school on the path would be a leverage point in the event of getting the bureaucratic version of "Ef off, we don't give a monkeys" Imagine the outcry if another little old lady, mum-to-be - both with toddlers in tow were to be attacked. I think that whoever was in charge of releasing the funds to make it safer would be very uncomfortable if it were to come to light that they had refused. That said, who do we make the first approach to? I'm none the wiser...

Yes, it is sad isn't it? I know that the passage of time blurs our recollection, and that many of the less great things about the past are edited out in our memories. Not in any way wanting to cause offence, but the time which you speak of probably did have its downside too, but I'd wager you're pretty much on the money that Greendale was a lot nicer and safer back then. Me and my mates recall the eighties with the same sort of fondness. I did have a brilliant time. I grew up in what was then quite a tough area in one of Britain's major cities but what I thought was quite a good place to grow up in. It happens now to be far worse, but we loved it. Then we remembered binman's strikes, power cuts, open gang warfare, massive and widespread unemployment, heroin abuse, etc, etc. We all looked at each other and thought "God, it was awful back then!" Fact was, in the middle of all of this we had pretty much a common and very fun childhood.

Bloody hell, that sounds horrific! Hope you recovered form the shock quickly.

Spot on. Which is why I was forced to fight back. The grandmother you talk about must have been terrified. How's she meant to cope with an attack like that? Equally her grandkids must have been traumatised by it. Given that there is a Nursery school on Greendale and therefore using an alternative route is impossible to a lot of people, would anyone know how to raise this as an issue to be addressed with better street lighting PCSOs or other? Before anyone starts, I know that PCSOs are not exactly Starsky and Hutch, but they are potential witnesses. Most muggers will not attack if they think they are in danger of being identified I wouldn't think. When I eventually contacted the old bill they were actually quite good. They had said they had increased plainclothes patrols in the area, and were pretty decent about the situation with me. I also got a follow up call from them between Christmas and New Year to see if I was alright(!?!?!??!) which led to quite a funny conversation about the circumstances, and the guy saying that by listening to the account of the officers involved and the recording of my 999 call, that "It might be the first time that we'd think about offering a mugger victim support instead of the victim themselves" which I found quite funny.

What thread is that? Soulboys in aesthetic terms were the prototype that I would say first generation casuals followed/looked to. I was always a bit disappointed that I was too young, but made up for it by embracing two other youth cultures during the 80's/90's - hence the moniker. Anyhooooooo! Greendale. No good after dark. Take care...

No, I used to post on various other places of that sort, but it gets like groundhog day on there. I know a good many of the lads who are intelligent, erudite, respectful and generally good blokes and usually, like me, fathers. However, that is not to say that for every one like that there are not at least two other complete sociopaths. I prefer more genteel company these days. Still friends with a lot of the boys though.

Sorry, What? You've lost me...

Yep. About 50 or so yards from the entrance to Mother Goose nursery, going down the hill, not quite as far as the small alley that leads through to the primary school and a little further still from the alley that connects to Sainsburys. I think that the darkness is the issue here. If it was better lit then I think the opportunity for attack would be much more limited. Given that this is a common route used by parents coming and going to the nursery, maybe someone might know how we could raise this as a concern to a local council person. I think it pays to have some smarts in places like this. I clocked this guy from quite a distance and knew almost instantly he was up to no good. When he passed by me on the path he was obviously weighing things up. As soon as I heard him stop behind me I knew things were only going to go one way. Because I was already expecting the worst I was counting his steps behind me to estimate how far away he was and how much time I had to prepare for him. However, as I said, I'm quite comfortable (in relative terms) in these sort of situations. Many would not be. Especially not mums with kids. I also see a pensioner picking up her grandkids from the nursery. I would not like to think that she would fall victim to this sort of thing. As you can see from the above detail, the guy was clearly an idiot. His attempt to mug me was right out of amateur hour, but he would be scary to many people nevertheless.

I'd say watch out after dark. Just before Christmas last year I was on my way to pick up my son from nursery on Greendale and some idiot attempted to mug me with a lock knife. Cut a long story very short, I'm pretty well able to look after myself and it was a bad night's work for him. If I had been a woman on my own I'd probably have been quite shaken up.

What on earth prompted any sane minded person to post a thread like this in 2009?.... bigbadwolf Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Seeing as I've been causing just a tiny bit of > discontent in the Irish quarter by branding them > as: > > Bogmen. > Tinkers. > Micks. > Thicko. > Spudmuncher. > Itinerants > Cowboys. > Etc... > > I just thought it would be fair if any of the > tin...er, Irish would like to share some of their > slurs that they use to describe their former > colonial masters. All contributions will be > treated as light hearted and me and the > administrators will be working in a joint effort > to curb any unpleasantness or if we think that the > thread is getting out of hand or bringing down the > tone of the forum. > > If you're from the commonwealth then please feel > free to add your contribution. > > U.K passport holders of English extraction are not > allowed to contribute unless I say so. > > Please begin.

Did they split due to musical differences?... . . . . . . . . . No, I'm guessing not...

Whilst undoubtedly necessary, post offices are amongst the most depressing places on God's earth. There can be few more disheartening combinations of words in the English language than "rail replacement bus service" "five man tent" and "post office queue" Laundrettes are pretty sh!t too...

Firezza are pretty good, but if you have any preferences, e.g. I like my pizzas a little bit charred and crusty, you have to be very prescriptive otherwise it is likely to be overlooked. Usually very nice pizzas though.

Declan Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Acid Casual Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Declan Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > > > > > Can you give an example of the bullies you > > refer > > > to please? > > > > Away and play with the traffic you. If they > start > > up on me, I'll take it to PM and have a one on > one > > with them like always, I'm not opening a can of > > worms on your behalf. > > > > I'm obviously not alone in feeling this, just > > don't expect me to enter into any cyber bitch > > slaps. > > I wish I knew what you are talking about > Mr.Reasonable and Articulate! Fud!

Declan Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > > Can you give an example of the bullies you refer > to please? Away and play with the traffic you. If they start up on me, I'll take it to PM and have a one on one with them like always, I'm not opening a can of worms on your behalf. I'm obviously not alone in feeling this, just don't expect me to enter into any cyber bitch slaps.

thexwinglessxbird Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Declan Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > > > Now that is interesting! > > Thank you! :) > & Thank you, Annaj for taking that out of context. > :)) > > Lewishamman, you have no reason to apologize to > anyone on this forum. If people have trust issues, > than that's their problem. Do not feel that you > need to prove anything. > > If you believe that they are the same people who > are trashing your garden with used condoms, then > they should be confronted. That's just disgusting > & unexceptable. > > If you are worried that police will pass on your > details (like I said, they shouldn't be doing that > anyway) then let them know beforehand. For what its worth winglessbird, I agree with you. There are some real cyber-bullies on here, and it is a bit pathetic at times. I actually couldn't give a monkeys if the original poster is a "troll" or not. If the concern seems as though it might be real, then it should be the natural response to try to help out. If it happens to turn out that the OP is less than genuine, I'd rather look a bit daft and get suckered than ignore what might be a genuinely fearful request for advice. I only wish I could offer some genuine advice, but I will say this for the old bill in Southwark. Someone tried to mug me before christmas, luckily I am more than able to take care of myself and the bloke had a very bad night's work that evening, but they could not have been nicer. It was a real surprise, but they were great. I'm sure they'd be equally understanding if you explain your circumstances. Actually, if the place in question is being run by serious heavies (assuming it is what you think it is) it would very likely be passed onto the vice squad and immigration, and your name would never come into it. They'd probably keep the place under observation for an extended period of time, and you'd be none the wiser. No idea if I'm being a mug by replying, but I really don't care. Best of luck whatever happens.