Lets talk about pubs

[scor46]

ok! ok! im biased! I sort of own a pub in the area except I don?t own it. Feudal Landlords own it. Well they manage it as part of their national cartel. They lie bully and cheat to squeeze every drop of profit out of my pub so much so that I sell draught beer as a loss leader...but we can discuss that in full later on.

Only 1 thing to say.. the pubs in ED are disappointing and overrated. Yes mine included. Over priced, under trained staff and somewhat lacking in decent competition. Green & Blue aside (I luv green & blue) Yes I know that the pubs do the best with what they have... but it just isn't good enough. I love a good night out but I just cant recommend ED pubs to my pals. They are average at best. I decided to change my place and turn it into a place that I would love to go for a nite out... a great nite out. (Don?t ask me yet which one i 'kinda' own because you have to guess)

The pubs look tired and unfriendly. I almost feel like im a drug dealer when I have to squeeze past the doorman?s glaring eye. Why cant we have a pub that looks good?

Im not finished.. in fact ive just started my rant...

but my little cherub is calling....dont we love it

[Jeremy]

I think the pubs are generally pretty good.

Apart from the 2 or 3 obviously rubbish ones.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Its a subject thats been done but one we love anyway. . .

to get a frame of reference however . . . Where outside of ed do you consider to be a genuinely good pub.

I almost kind of sorta know what you mean but think you are being over harsh

[Brendan]

A lot of what makes a pub "good" is the clientele and is therefore very subjective according to your age and kind of person you are.

[Jah Lush]

That's true Brendan. A good point but it's almost like saying "Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got one." Anyway there are only two "proper" pubs left in Dulwich and that's the CPT and the Castle. Still, I guess pubs are changing and so are people's requirements. Different strokes for different folks.

[mockney piers]

Different pubs for different moods too.

I think on the whole we've a nice variety and they do the job well enough across the range, but also agree scor46 that there are no outstanding pubs. In fact very few in London full stop.

I fled the outer territories for London for many many reasons, but they do do pubs and beer better as a (hugely generalising) rule.

[JoeChuff]

agreed - there's nothing really wrong with any of the pubs, and it's nice to walk down LL and think "what great variety etc" but none of them quite hit the spot. The ones in Peckham are better I think, e.g. Gowlett, Wishing Well. But really the best ones I've been to have been in Bath, Manchester, Brighton and Oxford.

[georgia]

I think the pubs on LL are fine, especially now they're smoke free, and at least they are within staggering distance of home....:)-D

[val]

The White Horse in Peckham is quite good and not to far from LL. They do go food as well

[Marmora Man]

I would echo others - pubs in ED are not too bad, the collective average quality is higher and better than it was three years when I arrived in the area. I frequent the Bishop and the Herne mostly, dislike the Uplands, have always meant to try the CPT but so far not made it, sipping a cool beer in the Rye garden on a sunny day is worthwhile too.

What makes a good pub - many things but it should reflect its community / clients. Where you feel at home on entering, where the landlord understands beer, where there is decent grub but is not a restaurant.

Thinking back to those I have loved - The Crown Inn at Elsenham (Essex) - playing darts and sneaking half pints of mild when just 16 after a Scout meeting (well social life in Essex in the 60's was pretty dire) - knowing that the village elders were next door in the snug playing crib. The Trengilly Wartha (Cornwall) where the cricket club meets to pick the team and several years worth of Wisden's are on the shelf and the landlord keeps a great wine list. The Bush Inn, Morwenstow (Devon) - where the beer just slides down a treat after a stretching walk along the cliff tops and past Hawkers Hut. RThe Border Hotel - Kirk Yetholm (Scotland) at the end of the Pennine Way. One, the name of which escapes me, beside the Grand Union Canal in Islington - an early convert to real ale in Camra's start up days where I'd while away afternoons that should have been spent studying for a degree. In the end pubs depend on people, place and time - if all these work well you have a great pub.

The best description of the best pub is, of course, in the attachment - George Orwell's Moon Under Water.

[Brendan]

Wasn?t JD Weatherspoon?s original model based on George Orwell?s ?Moon Under Water? article?

[Marmora Man]

Brendan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Wasn?t JD Weatherspoon?s original model based on

> George Orwell?s ?Moon Under Water? article?

I think you're right but it's gone off track now. The ideal pub - returning to Scor46's point is owner occupied, or at least tenanted on the old fashioned basis. The need to create chains and economies of scale b****** up good pub ethos. Keep it small, keep it simple, keep it local. On reflection all the pubs I listed, bat one, were independents.

[Brendan]

Yeah I can?t see the idyllic description of The Moon Underwater being applied to any of the Weatherspoon?s pubs I?ve been into.

[Asset]

bye the way Scor46 - are you the George Canning? Do I get the prize?

[scor46]

well done sherlock... you get the prize.

how did you guess??

[Jah Lush]

Simple you posted on the famous thread. Dead giveaway that.

[Asset]

you slipped up on another thread. I am all seeing and all hearing.

[tommy]

Am still hoping the Montpellier will open and be all things to all men (and women)

I used to live in Walthamstow, and the Nags Head was superb - great selection of drinks, good staff, and a great garden

[mockney piers]

Aha, I think I may know your secret identity then scor!!

Can't believe you didn't tell me about Neve, I'd have been quite star struck.

[scor46]

Well me and neve go back a long way!!

Well i was on one side of the bar and she was on the other...

[Keef]

Agree with Jah, that the CPT and The Castle are the only 2 left I'd call proper pubs... EDT and possibly the new look Plough are more pubs than bars I guess.

I liked Hoopers, but bless them, the location is sh!t, and I worry that they'll always struggle to get punters through the door...

I'm obviously a huge CPT fan, but I would actually say that I think Inside 72 has a certain something that none of the others have. As for the Canning, I've always had a nice time when I've gone there with Mockney Piers, it's just a bit out the way.

As someone else said though, it's all a matter of opinion, and different tastes... Scor46 you love Green & Blue, and whilst I'm not saying there's anything at all wrong with the place, it's not my cup of tea... Different folks, different strokes and all that.

Anyway, cheers :)-D

[ClareC]

Where is the Canning? :-$

[Keef]

Just on the bend at the very top of Dog Kennel Hill, opposite the Sally Army place.

[ClareC]

Oh I know the one, I have been past on the bus lots of times and thought it looked nice and I must go! I will definitely go....

[mockney piers]

Yeah it's a nice place.

Very laid back, more a place for a quiet pint / glass of wine and chat with your mates than a booze fuelled session place. It also does sliiightly posh pub food without the gastro overtones.

Quiz on tuesday nights where my music rounds answers are so rubbish, the quiz-master usually laughs out loud, quite embarrassing really.