Camberwell Grove bridge closed for at least 6 months

[edcam]

intexasatthe moment Wrote:

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> I do think that there should be more traffic signs

> on surrounding roads indicating the closure of the

> bridge .

>

> Is there a sign at the junction of Lyndhurst Way

> and Lyndhurst Grove ?

No but they wouldn't make any difference. It's horrendous round there and will be for a long time to come. None of the roads allow for two way traffic and it adds a huge amount of time to local journeys.

[richard tudor]

I believe that Southwark Council had its own agenda on traffic flow and this traffic chaos will prompt them to bring in traffic regulation that the pen pushers want not the general resident population.

How many of the pen pushers actually live in the area? Not many I would think.

Local residents know best. Have you every been asked. Real residents not the cycle mafia.

[MarianaTrench]

It does take quite a bit of time to drive via Lyndhurst Grove, particularly the bend between the VIlla nursery and the closed down Irish pub doesn't allow two way traffic. Regularly there are motorists stuck there, plus shouting, beeping etc.

[intexasatthe moment]

edcam - you say that having a sign indicating closure at j of Lyndhurst Way and Lyndhurst Junction wouldn't help much .

It would have helped me .I would have chosen to drive to ED via Bellenden ,Maxted and Adys Rd .

[gm99]

Having been in touch with Southwark Council, I thought others might be interested in the following:

In relation to the bridge on Camberwell Grove:

"With respect to a timescale for strengthening the bridge and re-opening to vehicular traffic, this is currently difficult to provide. We have to complete the design, obtain Network Rail approval for the design, secure the funding for the works from TfL, and then arrange the required rail closure with Network Rail to carry out the works. Being realistic, I can?t see this happening until April 2016 at the earliest which is the information provided to local residents. However, if there is any possibility of advancing this timescale, then the works will be carried out as soon as practicable."

And in relation to the current closure outside Denmark Hill station/the Phoenix pub on Windsor Walk:

"The closure on Windsor Walk is related although this scheme is further advanced than Camberwell Grove as the required design for the strengthening works is well underway. In an ideal world, we would hope to carry out the strengthening works to both bridges at the same time, and using the same track closure. However, we will not delay the works on one bridge if the other design has not been completed and received the required technical approvals."

[first mate]

Richard, I think you may have a point.

Richard tudor Wrote:

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> I believe that Southwark Council had its own

> agenda on traffic flow and this traffic chaos will

> prompt them to bring in traffic regulation that

> the pen pushers want not the general resident

> population.

>

> How many of the pen pushers actually live in the

> area? Not many I would think.

>

> Local residents know best. Have you every been

> asked. Real residents not the cycle mafia.

[James Barber]

Last time they consulted on Camberwell Grove majority of residents from thet street wanted it to remain closed permanently. But it was re opened as signal lane controlled by traffic lights.

[spider69]

Correct. It was only the residents of Camberwell Grove not all local residents. Perhaps you might recall the meeting, if you went, where all were against the closure of a main traffic route.

This is what local residents, other than The Camberwell people wanted for the road to remain open.

It was kept open by the use of traffic lights and the road narrowing to safe guard the weight on the bridge not to stop the rat run Camberwell Grove used to describe this main route.

This is why local residents are keeping a very close eye on this.

[MarianaTrench]

I also was in touch with Southwark council. I got back something similar:

By way of background, the problem with the bridge is that the brick jack arches under the bridge, that span between the steel support beams and transfer the loading, have been recently assessed as inadequate to carry the required loading for even the lowest national vehicular standard loading, which is for 3.0 tonne vehicles. Consequently, we had no option but to close the bridge to all motorised vehicular traffic. By way of remedial strengthening works, steel tie bars require to be installed under the bridge which will ?tie? the steel beams together. The design for the ties is complex and will require technical approval from Network Rail.

The costs for the recent load assessment, and design of the strengthening works, are being funded directly by TfL as part of the capital allocation for structures work. Once we have an estimate for the construction works, we will submit a bid to TfL for the required funding from the 2017-18 allocation for all London Boroughs.

With respect to timescales for the strengthening works and re-opening to vehicular traffic, this is currently difficult to predict with any degree of confidence or accuracy. This is because we have to complete the design, obtain Network Rail approval for the design, secure the funding for the works, and then arrange the required rail closure with Network Rail to carry out the works. I can confirm that the Council is doing everything possible to expedite the necessary design and I can also confirm that we have already held preliminary discussions with Network Rail. However, the earliest I would estimate the works being undertaken is around May/June next year, providing of course that we obtain the required TfL funding.

I am aware that traffic volumes, levels and speeds are to be closely monitored during the road closure for the purposes of evaluating the effects and for any possible improvements.

The bridge will be designed to sustain motorised traffic but the actual configuration and traffic permitted on the bridge will be the subject of public consultation well before the required works are undertaken. At this stage, it too early to advise as to the potential timescales for the consultation.

[Satellite]

Heres hoping they keep it closed for ever.

Heres a top tip, one I hasten to add I learnt the hard way, make sure if you are ordering a take away that the delivery driver is aware of the bridge being shut, I may look back and laugh now but let me tell you receiving a luke warm mushroom bahji 30 mins late due to the road closure wasn't the best way to welcome in the weekend.As a rule you can tend to ignore the above if you are ordering pizza as i have found that generally these are delivered by moped and they can sail straight through.

[intexasatthe moment]

"Heres hoping they keep it closed for ever." Why?

[edcam]

Is Satellite a joke account?

[Satellite]

intexasatthe moment Wrote:

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> "Heres hoping they keep it closed for ever." Why?

Because I remember what is was like when it was used as a short cut and the road was constantly busy and polluted !

[rupert james]

It was never a short cut but a major road and always was from the time it was constructed.

But some people will always liken the closure to the film Independence Day as mentioned before.

Lambs gambolling in the fields and cows eating the grass, then came the spaceship. Was not like this when I bought.

[intexasatthe moment]

But Satellite if you close one road to stop it being busy and polluted doesn't it increase the busyness and pollution on others ?

[Satellite]

intexasatthemoment, if you are indeed so, I credit you with showing concern over a road closure on the the other side of the pond, in fact if i was wearing a hat I would doff it to you, obviously it would have to be of the ten gallon variety in homage to your current location.

Where have I said it doesn't increase it elsewhere ? My personal opinion is i prefer it with the road shut, obviously other people have different opinions, what a boring place it would be if we were all the same but please never forget we are all Gods children!!

[pop9770]

I thought of this thread when the news were showing the monster sink hole in Japan that was fixed in two days !

We're so S$it .. hahahaha

LOL

[rendelharris]

Can I just point out that although the bridge is closed to motor traffic, it's still open for cyclists and pedestrians, so drivers joining Camberwell Grove from McNeil Road should continue to treat it as a junction, not just a new curve. I'm sure most do, I mention this particularly for the benefit of the gentleman [sic] in a green 4x4 who came haring round there this morning, clearly without looking at all to see if any traffic was coming up the Grove, who would have collected me on his bonnet had I not been aware enough to take evasive action. If you're reading this sir, thanks for the hooting and the gestures, as is well known they completely absolve you of any responsibility for your rotten dangerous driving.

[James Barber]

Hi rupert james,

Was Camberwell Grove a major through route when originally constructed what 200-300+ years ago?

Car ownership then was zero. Possibly predates bicycles. Horse and cart ownership was also extremely low. It has never been a tram or bus route. So for the life of me I can't see how Camberwell Grove has always been a major road?

Half the traffic in Southwark starts and ends it journey outside the borough. WOuldn't it be fab if that traffic didn't use such residential roads as cut -throughs/rat-runs but stuck to the actual main roads. And indeed vice versa when Southwark residents drive across other boroughs.

At a public meeting their was recently talk of trying something like this for Dulwich Village at school run hours.

[rendelharris]

Well said Mr.B. Any chance of a "give way to the right" sign on the McNeill Road junction?

[rupert james]

As a resident over 70 years I can assure that Camberwell Grove was always a major through route for traffic.

It may not have had a tram route that was reserved for Denmark Hill up through Dog Kennel Hill. It did not need to 2 tram routes.

Camberwell Grove has residential housing but it is not a cut through it takes traffic South to North and North to South.

Perhaps long term residents know more than you?

Would it not be wonderful for Camberwell Grove residents to shut it down and increase house prices.

It has always been a major route please accept it.

[rendelharris]

Quite right, by golly: nothing should ever be changed, ever, ever, ever, because someone can remember what it was like fifty years ago when traffic conditions were utterly different. Especially when they're a declared car lover and cycle hater. I hold no brief for Camberwell Grove residents, I'll never be able to afford to live there, but the idea that you have better knowledge of how traffic flow should be managed, simply by virtue of your birthdate, is utterly risible.

ETA "It was never a short cut but a major road and always was from the time it was constructed." Camberwell Grove came into being around 1770. The majority of houses there were built before 1850. Are you seriously claiming that horse and cart traffic would deliberately choose to use such a steep road when (and this is in fact what they did) they could go round the flat route through Peckham Rye? Laughable statement.

[rupert james]

No matter what anyone writes on here you always know better.

How do you know I could not afford to buy now or before in Camberwell Grove?

For your information I have many friends who live on Camberwell Grove.

Traffic condition have not changed on Camberwell Grove.

You do some times become a bore.

[rupert james]

rendelharris Wrote:

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> Quite right, by golly: nothing should ever be

> changed, ever, ever, ever, because someone can

> remember what it was like fifty years ago when

> traffic conditions were utterly different.

> Especially when they're a declared car lover and

> cycle hater. I hold no brief for Camberwell Grove

> residents, I'll never be able to afford to live

> there, but the idea that you have better knowledge

> of how traffic flow should be managed, simply by

> virtue of your birthdate, is utterly risible.

>

> ETA "It was never a short cut but a major road and

> always was from the time it was constructed."

> Camberwell Grove came into being around 1770. The

> majority of houses there were built before 1850.

> Are you seriously claiming that horse and cart

> traffic would deliberately choose to use such a

> steep road when (and this is in fact what they

> did) they could go round the flat route through

> Peckham Rye? Laughable statement.

How far would you like to go back?

[rendelharris]

I said I (that's me, you see, personal pronoun) will never be able to afford to live there. Slap on the old reading glasses and/or engage brain is my advice.

Traffic conditions haven't changed in the last seventy years?

You've frequently tried this "you're a bore" line since you were made rather a fool of some time ago, rest assured you may continue with it as I couldn't care less, it's a meaningless insult which I presume you think makes you superior - better than having a proper argument I suppose.

You actually think Camberwell Grove has been a major road since 1770, despite the fact that it would have been entirely impractical for the traffic of the time. That says as much as one needs to know about the validity of your opinions.