So what is it that makes us...well...human...

[Ladymuck]

I am unable to sleep and have just spent the last 15 minutes watching a fox who, curled up on our garden bench appears quite at peace watching someone's cat who, in turn is fascinated by the little baby mice who keep darting to and from under our shed to access our birdbath for a drink. These creatures seem to me happy and content to do what they are doing. It got me thinking: what exactly is it that separates us from them? What I mean is, what is it that makes us human? And are we better off being human?

[Huguenot]

You'd probably catch an awful chill living under your shed.

There's also the opposable thumbs thing. ;-)

[Marmora Man]

Being able to pose philosophical questions at any time of the day - let alone 03.02 in the morning.

[SeanMacGabhann]

All those creatures that look so happy at 3am in the morning? They are engaged in a daily fight for food, shelter and avoiding predators. It's a short and brutal life for even the lucky ones

Humans have the ability to organise complex societies which attempt to allay the worst of inequalities and which , relay concepts, appreciate art and esoteria.

There are of course humans who dismiss anything other than a brutal struggle as poncey nonsense - they are a HOOT to be around

[waynetta]

Also, none of those animals had either the ability nor the inclination to post about their observations at 3 in the morning. :)

[DJKillaQueen]

Some would say that what makes us human is our self awareness. But it seems some animals have this too so it's not a true measure. Of course the obviuos stuff is the complexity of our brains and the many things it enables to in a far more complex and controlled way than animals but I think we are often more animal like in our behaviour than we like to admit.

I think what makes us human is our ability to drive ourselves insane, by trapping most of us in wasteful lives where we are judged and crushed by meaningless stuff and taxed to death. 'Work or die' being a kind of ethic over which we have little choice. There was a time when we could 'hunt/ fish/ farm or die' and only take what we needed from the land to live. Instead we have become a mad and inefficient species on whom all that brain power has become our downfall.

So for me what makes us human is our failure to use what we have wisely. The irony being, the more evolved we become, the dumber we become.

[matthew123]

Perhaps in their own little worlds the fox, cat and mice also consider such observations on life ;-)

[Ladymuck]

Is that the best you lot can do?

Pah! I may as well be a frog...

*ribbitt*

[Ladymuck]

Actually...

I'm half one...

Ah oui - c'est vrai...

[Jeremy]

How about... the intelligence to choose not to follow our instincts?

[dita-on-tees]

Well we are the only species to take other species and not just kill them, but to marinade them and serve with a chestnut and mushroom sauce and maybe some broccoli. The rest is probably just detail.

i have spent way too much time in my kitchen this weekend

[woofmarkthedog]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> How about... the intelligence to choose not to

> follow our instincts?

--------------------------------

Jeremy...

I know , it is hard NOT to eat a squirrel these days

http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2008/05/SquirrelPastieSWNS_450x450.jpg ( doesn't that pastie look good )

W**F

[Ladymuck]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> How about... the intelligence to choose not to

> follow our instincts?

But I LIVE by my instincts Jeremy :-S

[PeckhamRose]

DJKQ that was a really good post, thank you.

My small contribution to this is that I don't think other animals are as willing to put up with the shit from their own species as we do with ours. They just either kill each other or run away. I am trapped with politicians and rich people ruling my life and yet had it just been down to survival of the fittest I would have been dead a year after I was born!

[Ladymuck]

PeckhamRose Wrote:

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I am trapped with politicians and rich

> people ruling my life and yet had it just been

> down to survival of the fittest I would have been

> dead a year after I was born!

But you aint...

[SeanMacGabhann]

That's rather PeckhamRose's point LM...

There is no question that DJKQ's point about humankind making a rod for it's own back has merit, but it's way too fatalistic to say it's that which defines humanity

We are so infinitely complex and yet capable of lowest common denominator behaviour that it can make you nuts to think about it

But there are plenty of people trying to make things better (in their own small way) - far more than I need to make living a joy

Unlike PR I don't see my life as ruled by or trapped by politicians and rich people. Blaming politicians is widespread but is only lazy shorthand for us not doing what we think should be done ourselves. If there has ever been a better system of society than modern democracy (for all it's many many many MANY failings) then I'd like to live in it (and I mean the reality not a romantic historic gloss)

No other species (that we currently know of) will hear a piece of music, see a painting or film and experience the richness of emotions that we feel. If the only good thing that happened in my 41 years to date on this planet was to hear or see (and let's pick a random example- every one of us has millions of them - )

Dennis Potter final TV interview

I'm already up on the deal in a way that non-humans just can never be

[SteveT]

The way we arrogantly consume the world's resources due to over indulged lifestyle, and to our short sighted over-population.

We as humans arrogantly ignore the future consequences because we dislike talking about death.

Knowing that the end result is too dire for either us,

or any of the political leaders we voted in for the last forty odd years.

We might cause a run on the pound, the place might become a free for all, there could be riots in the street.

You reading this cannot wait to click to another thread which is easier to live with and more fun..................

That is being a yellow bellied, cowardly human, just like me.

[SeanMacGabhann]

And just so we are all clear on this. Stevet's regular nihilistic posts are what makes me worried to be alive

[Huguenot]

I often find it helps to break down these questions into smaller fragments - in this case before deciding what makes us 'human', you have to decide what 'human' is.

This isn't as simple as it sounds. It's difficult to define what 'human' is in any consistent way. For example we could argue that humans have two arms and two legs, but we're all agreed that losing a limb in an accident doesn't make us less than human.

Likewise we're familiar with anatomically perfect people being described as 'inhuman', so apparently defining a 'human' must somehow revolve around a set of values - not a physical form.

We're into the realm of many great philosophers here, particularly concerning whether these values can be defined or expressed in particular actions, or whether the thoughts themselves are what defines our humanity.

In other words, if we think nice thoughts but are unable to put them into action then are we still nice? More pointedly if we think nasty thoughts but do good deeds are we then good?

For most people, a person thinking nasty thoughts but doing good deeds would be described in unpleasant terms - for example 'two faced'.

So possibly we could conclude the generally accepted definition of 'human' lies within thoughts and beliefs, not in actions or appearances.

Those thoughts and beliefs considered most 'humane' are generally altruistic ones - a process which requires abstract reasoning, an understanding of cause and effect, and collaboration for the greater good.

In other words what makes us human is the ability to do things such as watching the wildlife, drawing insights and parallels, and using these to inform our decisions about the future on both a moral plane and a physical one.

[katie1997]

Yeah, I mean, there are just soooooooooooo many people watching crap TV nowadays, like x-factor...

*QED*

[SteveT]

If as humans we refuse to address these failings Sean, there is little hope for humankind.

Being human is the capability we have of contemplating this self induced behaviour.

We are slightly more complicated than leamings, but we are going the same way.......

.

.

.

. and what makes us human is the fact that we know Sean, you mory oxon.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Mory oxon. I like that!!

Wordplay. Another human trait I like

[Ladymuck]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> That's rather PeckhamRose's point LM...

*blows big fat raspberry at SMG*

PS: I should say that I'm currwently as pissed as a newt (or frog)...have a load of neighbours round...but keep sneaking upstairs to see what you lot are up to...

[Ladymuck]

katie1997 Wrote:

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> *QED*

Hey Latin Lady...love it!

[DJKillaQueen]

In other words what makes us human is the ability to do things such as watching the wildlife, drawing insights and parallels, and using these to inform our decisions about the future on both a moral plane and a physical one.

I can kind of agree that 'what we are able to do'....rather than 'how we do it' or 'what we do' defines hemanity. But then again I also think what we do matters too. We often describe certain acts as inhumane - murder, torture, genocide. The fact is that however we describe these things, humans plan and DO them and in large numbers. Is this also a definition of humanity? Something that sets us aside from animals?

Back to PRs point. We ARE trapped by the 'system'. It would take revolution to change that, nothing less. People are trapped by poverty, ideology, circumstance.....those things are real and make the quality of life for far too many very miserable and poor and they in turn can do NOTHING about it. I personally see that as a form of state organised mental torture.

It's not premeditated (in most cases) but nor is anything radical done to change it. The system is designed to protect the privileges of those that 'own' or govern it first and the rest then follows. And that might well be descibed as a normal human trait were it not for examples of civilisations and communities historically, that have lived sucessfully within far more fair and healthier systems.