Please read and support your firefighters!!!!

[Moflo]

As a serving FF in London, this strike is the last resort and none of us, I repeat NONE of us want to strike, we have been forced to take this measure as we have been bullied and harassed into this by our boss......the infamous Brian Coleman.

It's not about us wanting more money (we have taken a paycut and are having our wages frozen).

It's not about us sleeping (even tho most of you would want a rested FF if you needed us in the middle of the night)

It's not about us wanting to do a 2nd job (which only some of us need due to not being able to afford to live in London) It's not about wanting more time to play snooker or watch tele (we are now always training, learning new procedures, doing CFS, or premises visits, oh and we often don't even get a full hour lunch/dinner break due to this and we need to prepare all the food in that time). .

It's about us being bullied by the management into changing the current shift system (which incidentally works brilliantly and we also hit all our targets on this current system). It's so they can make the 25% cuts in our service, which means job loses, station closures, loss of fire engines and reduction in overall fire cover in london.

Oh and the finer detail is they have threatened all 5500 firefighters with the sack, so they can re-employ us on a new contract to facilitate these cuts. They are using clever people on lots of money to word it all, so it looks like we're being unfair, the truth is out there if you look at some of the pages on social networking sites. .

So anyone out there who are saying we're 'selfish', 'sack them all', their being unprofessional' etc etc. . Do you want the fire brigade to protect you and your families and for us to be there when you really need us, or cross your fingers and hope that the station that has had one fire engine taken away, isnt on another shout and you need to wait for the closest station to get to you?

3 mins of smoke inhalation and the brain is dead.... think about it. What do you want from a service that YOU pay for????

Yes i'm biased, but if I wasn't in the service then I would want what's best for me and my family and thats for the LFB to turn up when I need them.

[Fuschia]

A close friend of ours is a firefighter and was telling us how the plans would see him having to make his way to alternative stations in his own time and for a flat travel rate of ?30 instead of being paid overtime and reimbursed actual travel costs (his role means he gets sent to other stations)

[Moflo]

There are a couple of stations where they (the management) have removed appliances and stored them away, leaving those station without applainces and firefighters deployed to other stations!

When the strike is in force they will use scab labour to man the appliances they have hidden away!

Your and your families lives are in their hands.

[Moflo]

An article in local Fulham and Hammersmith paper:

H&F fire stations struggle with engine cuts amid strike threats

Oct 15 2010

By Greg Burns

FEARS that firefighters in Hammersmith and Fulham will ...vandalise fire engines during their impending strike have been slammed as 'ridiculous' with dozens being taken away and crews left short of vital equipment.

A total of 79 per cent of firefighters across London voted in favour of strike action in protest against proposed mass-sackings of staff and their re-employment under new shift patterns and conditions.

In anticipation of the vote, 27 fire engines across London were taken away by Brigade bosses amid concerns they would be sabotaged by picketing firefighters and to be used by 700 workers on standby to help deal with the possible strike and include several engines from H&F.

But these fears have been rubbished by one borough fireman who said it is leaving crews in H&F and neighbouring boroughs stretched to their limits.

The man, who did not give his name for fear of the sack, said: "People need to know what is going on. The idea that we would vandalise the appliances is just ridiculous.

"If we are on the picket line and an old lady's house goes up in flames over the road then we would want to go and help. Not sit by and watch because we had slashed the tyres on the engine."

Fire stations in Hammersmith, Fulham and Chelsea have been left with only one engine at a time and sometimes none at all if they are forced to attend incidents in neighbouring boroughs.

The firefighter said: "We have had to go out to incidents all across London in the past few days and that means there is not an engine in Hammersmith or Fulham at certain times and people should be aware of that.

"This problem is escalating and it is not helping anyone. We need to be able to do our jobs properly and keep people safe."

The decision to stockpile fire engines has also been slammed by the Fire Brigades Union (FBU) who say it is only strengthening their firefighter's resolve to take industrial action.

Paul Embery, London FBU spokesman, said: "It is a hugely provocative move which will only worsen existing tensions. With the service already on the brink of collapse, it beggars belief.

Matt Wrack, Fire Brigades Union (FBU) general secretary, said: "Firefighters hate going on strike but they hate being bullied even more."

London Fire Brigade has caused controversy by forcing through changes in the current shift patterns and reducing the 15 hour night shift to 12 hours and increasing the nine hour day shifts to 12 hours.

Brian Coleman, chairman of London Fire and Emergency Planning Authority, said: "It is disappointing and saddening that the only losers in all of this will be firefighters. "A strike by the FBU will be unnecessary and viewed unsympathetically by Londoners."

London Fire Commissioner Ron Dobson said: "Our contingency plans will, of course, now move forward to ensure the capital is protected during any period of strike action by the FBU."

Who are the commission trying to kid! They will use scab labour and put you all at risk!

[Pearson]

I'm sorry, the use of Scab labour will not be putting us at risk as you say.

It is the Firefighters who will be putting us at risk.

The Scabs will simply be doing there best to cover whilst you carry on this action.

In simple terms i like many others in this country don't have the luxury of being able to strike in my place of work.

If i don't like cuts to my salary etc i have the choice to quit or be grateful that i at least have a job...

These are difficult time for everyone and yes i and many other have had to take quite a large salary cuts over recent years. Nor do i get the luxury of overtime, yet often work through the night to meet deadlines.

I could go on of course... suffice to say i disagree with this action and you will not be receiving my support.

It really wasn't that long ago that you took similar action?

Please don't miss-understand me by thinking i dislike firefighters. I have huge respect for the work they do.

I simply have no respect for the sort of action they are proposing.

[????]

and how does you going on strike not put us at risk? Or is it just the backroom stuff that you'll not do...I'm confused

[DJKillaQueen]

Oh no I'm going to do it again and agree with Pearson.

All public sector services are going to have to make cuts...and they all are going to fight tooth and nail over them. Whilst I symapthise with anyone facing a job loss, like Pearson says, public sector workers are afforded benefits and employment protections that the vast majoirity of private sector workers don't have. Ask any private sector worker when they last got a pay rise for example..year on year rises just don't exist for them.

My understanding of the dispute is that the Union doesn't want to facilitate job losses. We've heard the argument of lives being at risk every time a station closure has been proposed in the past. An argument that was not born out in reality.

[woofmarkthedog]

Yes

Just add some logs & kindling..

http://www.greenfingers.com/images/superstore/LD0005D_l.jpg

[????]

....so, Union in tugging at the old emotional heart strings shocker?

[Pearson]

Moflo Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

NONE of us want to strike, // we have been bullied and harassed into this by our boss......

So anyone out there who are saying we're 'selfish', 'sack them all', their being unprofessional' etc etc. .

Do you want the fire brigade to protect you and your families and for us to be there when you really need us, or cross your fingers and hope that the station that has had one fire engine taken away, isnt on another shout and you need to wait for the closest station to get to you. . hmmmm, 3 mins of smoke inhalation and the brain is dead. . think about it. What do you want from a service that YOU pay for????

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Not sure i like the tone of your last paragraph either.

Comes across as bullying/ scare tactics to gain my vote?

[Kes]

MoFlo

you say "it's about us being bullied"

I feel bullied by people I depend on for the safety of my family refusing to to go to work because of proposed changes to their pay and conditions at a time when it seems everyone in the county is facing the same issues. My pay has been frozen for 3 years, my pension changed so it costs me more, I have never had any overtime and can't remember the last time I took an hour for lunch (I could go on).

I have great respect and admiration for the job done by our firefighters, but I'm afriad, right now we are all being forced to take a hit. The difference is most of us realise we need to take it on the chin, count what blessings we have and carry on. Why should firefighters be the exception and why should other peoples lives be put at risk to make that so?

Makes me very sad

K

ooh slightly spooky crossing of posts with Pearson there

[????]

My slight suspicion is that it's the same scaremoingering bullshit we get from that Communist, Millwall supporting tosser Bob Crow every time the tube drivers go on strike....

[DJKillaQueen]

Some of those tube drivers earn a lot of money as well......

[????]

I've got two mates who are Tube drivers...on a very decent wack, good lads...both West Ham too ;-)

[david_carnell]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> All public sector services are going to have to

> make cuts...and they all are going to fight tooth

> and nail over them. Whilst I symapthise with

> anyone facing a job loss, like Pearson says,

> public sector workers are afforded benefits and

> employment protections that the vast majoirity of

> private sector workers don't have. Ask any private

> sector worker when they last got a pay rise for

> example..year on year rises just don't exist for

> them.

It would appear that the LFB have taken a pay cut and had their pay frozen according to the OP. So they're no better off than the private sector.

And I've never understood this argument - whenever the public sector workers complain everyone says, "moan moan moan we don't get the perks you do yadda yadda pay rises etc etc"

Firstly, pay in the public sector is below it's private sector equivalent. And secondly, and most importantly, why is that the fault of the public sector? Why not start questioning the type of contracts you're getting in the private sector and demanding better. Collective negotiation often works wonders. Ask a trade unionist.

[Pearson]

DJKQ - Yes, tube drivers earn ridiculous amount of money relative to a lot of professions IMO and that before the pensions/ job security etc that goes with the job!

Pisses me right off when these unions get going and start complaining about x/y&z irrelevant issues...

[????]

And we all get the same yada yada vback, Average public sector pay is above average private sector pay now I believe.....job security is a thing of the past in almost ALL the private sector and has been for yonks, The majority of Private Sector employes have NO pension coverage other than state one and many of these only the basic one, yet, the Unions still act like everyone not in UNITE/Unison is a millionairre banker and responsible for the recession.

[DJKillaQueen]

Also the majority of people in the private sector are not earning anything like the average wage so that arguement cuts no ice with me. And a lot of public sector workers are freelance or employed by contract so there is no room for collective negotiation or demonstration to force bosses to change anything. Private sector workers just do not have the same protection or negotiating power.

[david_carnell]

Except Unite/Unison/FBU don't blame private sector workers at all.

As a union member myself I have nothing but sympathy for my "brothers and sisters" who suffer the indignity of lack of pension cover or poor employment conditions.

But if you think that somehow that means I'm not going to fight for mine you're sorely mistaken.

The constant battering against the left is of "dumbing down" - try and lift a section of society up and look what happens. Don't like your lot? Join a union and make a difference again. Fed up with the cushy deal public sector workers get due to union membership? Join a union.

But don't criticise those that have.

[Loz]

Firstly, pay in the public sector is below it's private sector equivalent.

Is it? Do you take into account pay per hour or annual salary? Do you include the better pension provisions and other perks?

[taper]

"Average public sector pay is above average private sector pay now "

A meaningless statistic

[????]

But it's ok the other way then? Which was how it was put by someone else first?

[????]

Another alternative is to vote for parties that aren't absolutely dominated by huge middle class white collar self interested Public Sector union sponsored MPs.... who claim to represnt the working class

[waynetta]

WATER filled fire extinguishers make ideal 'oxygen cylinders' for dolphins should they be taken out of the water at any time, for transportation etc.

[Marmora Man]

As I understand it the core of the issue is about shift patterns. It would be helpful if Moflo outlined the what is in dispute. Allegations of highhanded management are just "normal" dispute rhetoric as are management allegations of union intransigence. Facts would be helpful

As I understand it the point of dispute is over shift patterns - with the present being 2 9 hour day shifts followed by two 15 hour night shifts followed by four days off - which averages out at 30 hours a 5 day week. Management has proposed two 12 hour day shifts followed by two 12 hour night shifts followed by four days off - which averages at 30 hours for a 5 day week. Hardly revolutionary. Having supervised shift workers myself, working in a very similar pattern to the firefighters, the current pattern seems to me to be inefficient.

My team happily agreed, after discussion and negotiation to 7 x 12 hour days shifts, followed by 7 x 12 hour night shifts followed by two weeks off. It still averaged 6 hours a day / 30 hours a week over the year but they really valued the 2 week break every month and felt the two hard weeks of shift work were worth it. Efficiency came from the improved continuity and reduced handovers - altho' no staff were made redundant, just redeployed to a standard 40 hour 8 - 5 week.

Management also argue that longer day shifts allow for improved training time and increased time to deliver other, non firefighting tasks - such as prevention. Sounds sensible to me.