East Dulwich S.N.U.B

[monica]

Dear Forumites

East dulwich SNUB (Say No to Unwanted Bags) now have a website,with details of the campaign and the decision whether we have received funding for the EastDulwich cloth bags will be announced on the 3rd of October.

The Eastdulwich wintergreen fair will also be on the website soon as it is still under construction and my Website designers have put this together out of kindness and love for me so Thank you.

So if you fancy having a look its www.eastdulwichsnub.co.uk

ta folks

[Loz]

And there was I thinking there was a new protest website about how the media ignores ED. :))

[Vik]

Looking good so far!(tu)

[Ted Max]

Hi Monica. Is there any commercial angle in this for HealthMatters, or are you doing this purely from conviction? Nothing wrong if it's the former, of course. Was just wondering.

[Keef]

Good work!

[monica]

Hy Ted no Healthmatters does not gain anything from Snub.The only connection is that i am a member of SNUB.

SNUB is all about trying to reduce the use of plastic in East Dulwich.There are various SNUB camapigns in The uk,and i think that it is important that we have a similar campaign.

The wintergreen fair is not for profit either,the stall holders will be selling their green,eco,recycled products,the stalls are businesses that exist in East Dulwich who sell recycled or sustainable products.Any money leftover from sponsorship,ie from the small businesses of East Dulwich will go into future campaigns.

[Nero]

Monica,

Good for you. Hopefully the bags and the fair will let people know that there are things you can do, but that it's so much more than just doing the 'little' actions like switching off your lights, not using standby. Over buying, wasting food and driving when not needed (yes, even the kids' run and nipping off to the corner shop for Green and Black chocolate, which my partner is wont to do!), not insulating your house and over heating are big concerns. Nero

[monica]

Nero i totally agree

[Domitianus]

There was a broadsheet newspaper article recently (I cut it out but have mislaid it) that addressed the unspoken (and, dare I say it, unspeakable!) notion that the most environmentally friendly act most people could engage in is choosing not to have any children. Any thoughts? Or is the concept, as I have suggested, unspeakable?

[Domitianus]

Domitianus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There was a broadsheet newspaper article recently

> (I cut it out but have mislaid it) that addressed

> the unspoken (and, dare I say it, unspeakable!)

> notion that the most environmentally friendly act

> most people could engage in is choosing not to

> have any children. Any thoughts? Or is the

> concept, as I have suggested, unspeakable?

That is not to say, of course, that the other actions that Monica et al suggest are not important - rather that there is an elephant in the room that many people seem not to wish to acknowledge.

[monica]

interesting concept domitianus.Then no children and no evolution,where do you draw the line?:))

[lozzyloz]

Not sure where this is going Domitianus. Why stop at children? Since humans are the cause of this mess lets apply the Logans Run Principle?

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Mengele better surely?

[lozzyloz]

I think he used fossil fuels

[Nero]

There are some American ultra-rightists who talk of 'useless eaters', by which they mean millions of people in the third world who they think just exist to exist and without whom the world would be a better place. Bit harsh, obv, but I do wonder why people feel the need to have more than two. Nero

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

Some people have less ability to stop themselves getting pregnant than others. Everyone knows about the woes of the sub-fertile, but women who are over fertile get blamed for getting pregnant. My son was conceived while I was on the pill, my eldest daughter while using the diaphram and condoms, my next one was planned (got married and my new husband had no kids) and the fourth one was as a result of coming off the injection and onto the pill again as I'd become depressed on the injection. I have had 2 abortions and 3 miscarriages, and finally got sterillised at the age of 39. So does that answer your question Nero?

[peckhamboy]

There are probably many more in the world who think the American ultra-rightists would fall into their own category of "useless eaters"...

[Domitianus]

Remarkable! By simply introducing the possibility of people making lifestyle choices regarding the environment that may mean a bit more sacrifice than simply giving up the second car, we suddenly have an apocalyptic, eugenic, euthenistic world-view painted for us!

I was simply thinking in terms of people who are considering whether or not to have children giving some thought to what it will mean to their own carbon footprint if they choose to add several more carbon footprints to the world. No draconian options, forced contraception, euthenasia or Mengele-like solutions were even hinted at by me, merely that if people are serious about 'saving the environment' then they should consider the impact of ALL their actions upon it, not just those sacrifices that are fairly easy and comparatively comfortable to make. I was not suggesting that it should be anything more than a factor that might be weighed in the balance of each individual's decision process surrounding raising a family.

Still, I guess my original post was spot on when I said this was something that can scarcely be mentioned without being almost accused of harbouring Ultra Right Wing, Neo-Nazi sentiments. Hilarious! I think here we have a case of cognitive dissonance - the conflicting demands of two beliefs that are difficult to reconcile (ie. the ED passion with for having kids in droves and the other ED passion for protecting the environment). Only way out of the dissonance is to attack the person who drew it to one's attention in the first place - wonderful!

I shall watch this tread with interest - it should be amusing. Or maybe I will go and watch paint dry instead, not quite sure.

On the original point, I think Monica's championing of the SNUB campaign is highly commendable and I for one now have a couple of nice, cloth recyclable bags in which to carry around my copies of Mein Kampf and Galton's eugenic classic.

Well done Monica. Keep up the good work.

[monica]

oh thank you domitianus:)There are 5 of us on the SNUB campaign however and i will applaud those people myself well done ED snubbers:)-D

[monica]

Tut tut im amazed at the fact that i asked for Volunteers to act as stewards at the wintergreen fair in December and i only had 1 response.TUT TUT shame on you forumites,i can appreciate its a saturday and its volunteer work but we do have hot drinks on tap,and maybe a alcoholic 1 at the end if you can persuade me,but come on guys,this is a community event.Please a little more effort ta chucks:))Bob are you a strong mascular type if you are im looking for a guy just like you;-)i may need you to assist me xx

[DaveR]

Dom, I think you'll find the instinct/desire to have kids extends beyond ED and has been around for a while. If somebody decides not to have kids, that's up to them, but not having any because of a desire to thereby save the world strikes me as a bit odd.

No dissonance in my house - just kids.

[Domitianus]

DaveR Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Dom, I think you'll find the instinct/desire to

> have kids extends beyond ED and has been around

> for a while. If somebody decides not to have

> kids, that's up to them, but not having any

> because of a desire to thereby save the world

> strikes me as a bit odd.

>

> No dissonance in my house - just kids.

Kids who consume and thereby use up the world's resources. Kids who weren't there until a decision (or, occasionally, an accident) brought them into being. I was merely pointing out a newspaper article reporting that many people who run around trying to be environmentally friendly don't seem to realise that having children may be one of the most environmentally damaging decisions they could make. I have already pointed out that it is a personal decision but am just curious as to whether people who deeply ponder the environmental implications every time they break wind or buy a potato ever stop and apply the same reasoning to their decision to raise a family.

Of course people outside ED have children as well but I don't think I am the first person to notice that ED seems to be a veritable breeding ground this last few years. The percentage of expectant mothers and/or pram-pushing parents moving up and down LL on any given day must be un-rivalled in any other part of the UK!

[DaveR]

Deciding not to have kids may well be a simple lifestyle choice, but I think for most people deciding to have them, and the experience of raising a family, is a little bit more significant than that.

Agreed that there are a lot of kids in ED, but that's because it's a nice place to have kids. I don't think that family size is any bigger here than elsewhere, or that living here causes people to have kids who otherwise wouldn't.

Dom, we all know already that you don't like kids - whyy don't you just leave it at that?

[Domitianus]

DaveR Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Deciding not to have kids may well be a simple

> lifestyle choice, but I think for most people

> deciding to have them, and the experience of

> raising a family, is a little bit more significant

> than that.

>

> Agreed that there are a lot of kids in ED, but

> that's because it's a nice place to have kids. I

> don't think that family size is any bigger here

> than elsewhere, or that living here causes people

> to have kids who otherwise wouldn't.

>

> Dom, we all know already that you don't like kids

> - whyy don't you just leave it at that?

Good one, Dave, appointing yourself as editor and arbiter of what people are entitled to discuss. Re your 'knowledge' that don't like kids, you are completely wrong - I love kids but I just don't want them under my feet at every moment of the day.

This thread is related to environmental issues and I have drawn to people's attention a matter that has received newspaper comment recently but that doesn't seem to have been drawn into the environmental debate, namely that having children has an environmental impact that many people don't seem to want to consider, despite the fact that they are prepared to criticise every minute environmental infringement perpetrated by others. It is a valid subject for discussion and that is what a discussion board is about. It would see, however, from your comments that there are certain subjects that are just too uncomfortable for you to want to have to look at. An example of the cognitive dissonance I mentioned previously? Looks like it.

Tell you what Dave, if you don't want to consider an Inconvenient Truth (oh, the irony!) then just put on your rose-tinted glasses, skip this thread - whyy [sic] don't you just leave it at that?

[macroban]

Say no to unwanted balloons.