8 June

[red devil]

He may have been given some training for the TV debates, but I agree Sue, out on the campaign trail, hustings etc, he's a natural, years of experience, something May doesn't have...

[Loz]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I assume Lordship means, and I agree, that she

> should apologise for calling an entirely

> unnecessary general election

Nice try, Rendel, but looks like you were a bit off the mark!

Anyway, you should be happy she called the election - it seems to have kiboshed the hard Brexit we were careering towards. And with any luck and a good wind, it might even undo it completely. It may yet - inadvertently, of course - save us a lot of money!

[Loz]

Sue Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Loz Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> > The man is a walking advertisement for some

> > consultancy somewhere - they did a remarkable

> job.

>

>

> I don't think that's true.

>

> I heard him speak just after (literally just

> after) he had been put under pressure all

> afternoon by Labour MPs who wanted him to stand

> down as leader.

>

> He was totally inspiring.

>

> That was months and months ago.

>

> The only reason anybody would think otherwise was

> because of biased media coverage.

>

> I doubt very much any consultancy has been

> involved. He didn't need it.

Oh, I know he's good in front of a crowd, but he was awful in TV studio.

[JoeLeg]

>

> Anyway, you should be happy she called the

> election - it seems to have kiboshed the hard

> Brexit we were careering towards. And with any

> luck and a good wind, it might even undo it

> completely. It may yet - inadvertently, of course

> - save us a lot of money!

I'd love to believe this, but May is just as much at the mercy of the hardcore eurosceptics in her party as the remainers such as Davidson. She has Johnson, Davis and Gove in her cabinet, and she knows if she veers too far from the harder end of the negotiations she will be scuppered by those Eurosceptic backbenchers.

I remain to be convinced that Brexit will soften.

[red devil]

If she doesn't veer from the harder end of the negotiations she will be scuppered by those Remain backbenchers...

[rendelharris]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> rendelharris Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > I assume Lordship means, and I agree, that she

> > should apologise for calling an entirely

> > unnecessary general election

>

> Nice try, Rendel, but looks like you were a bit

> off the mark!

Really? I look to Lordship to correct me, but I see nothing in his or her posts which contradicts my opinions...

[Lordship 516]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Loz Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > rendelharris Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> >

> > > I assume Lordship means, and I agree, that

> she

> > > should apologise for calling an entirely

> > > unnecessary general election

> >

> > Nice try, Rendel, but looks like you were a bit

> > off the mark!

>

> Really? I look to Lordship to correct me, but I

> see nothing in his or her posts which contradicts

> my opinions...

Rendel - I can confirm your opinion concurs with mine

... & that I am a mere male..

[Lordship 516]

DUP issues:-

Human Rights issues -

http://ohrh.law.ox.ac.uk/the-dups-worrying-human-rights-record/

DUP councillor's celebration of DUP election success -

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2017/dup-man-celebrated-election-with-photo-of-terror-group-flag-in-downing-street-35814566.html

British health service publishes 2016 abortion stats for England & Wales -

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCMjql-XsAAx32T.jpg

3,265 Rep Ireland, 724 N Ireland;

Human Rights Laws "Weakening human rights laws will not make us safer"

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCMMH88XkAABsKx.jpg

[miga]

I feel very sorry for May, on a personal level. This (being PM) is something she's been working towards most of her adult life, and by most standards, she is a remarkable person. Bright, extremely energetic and diligent, able to navigate the shark infested waters of top end politics. But put yourself in her shoes - she takes the reins as the country is looking down the abyss on the back of a decision she herself knew was stupid, obliged to follow through in the aftermath by the swivel eyed loons in her party that precipitated the debacle of Brexit, and in the medium to long term looking at a pension and care mountain that is insurmountable unless some radical policy change is made. When she speaks on her former brief - she's all over the details, a clear swat. But, unfortunately (and to me, this is an irrelevance) - she's not particularly charismatic. The best thing she has going for her are the bickering opposition, who helmed by a similarly non-TV friendly leader have been a shambles since the last general election. So of course she calls an election to strengthen her hand, both within the Tory party and for Brexit.

Now, she has to make deals with a bunch of corrupt extremists to stay in power, and stares down the long barrel of Brexit negotiations where she'll get hammered by the other side who smell blood and weakness. Surrounded by bench warmers (you wouldn't want power now if you were a long term thinker - so it's all 2nd XI around her) who want her place. A modern tragic hero.

Not that I voted for her, but I feel a degree of sadness for her.

[JoeLeg]

As Nick Clegg said, in politics you live by the sword and die by the sword.

(Now he was using it as a metaphor, but personally I think it would make committee meetings and PMQ's much more entertaining).

I don't feel sorry for her. She knew what she was getting into.

[edcam]

The other way of looking at it is that she may well (as any sensible politician would) believe that Brexit is a disaster in writing but she's so unprincipled and desperate to cling to power that her principles have fallen by the wayside. She isn't obliged to do a deal with these horrors and it will be her downfall.

miga Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I feel very sorry for May, on a personal level.

> This (being PM) is something she's been working

> towards most of her adult life, and by most

> standards, she is a remarkable person. Bright,

> extremely energetic and diligent, able to navigate

> the shark infested waters of top end politics. But

> put yourself in her shoes - she takes the reins as

> the country is looking down the abyss on the back

> of a decision she herself knew was stupid, obliged

> to follow through in the aftermath by the swivel

> eyed loons in her party that precipitated the

> debacle of Brexit, and in the medium to long term

> looking at a pension and care mountain that is

> insurmountable unless some radical policy change

> is made. When she speaks on her former brief -

> she's all over the details, a clear swat. But,

> unfortunately (and to me, this is an irrelevance)

> - she's not particularly charismatic. The best

> thing she has going for her are the bickering

> opposition, who helmed by a similarly non-TV

> friendly leader have been a shambles since the

> last general election. So of course she calls an

> election to strengthen her hand, both within the

> Tory party and for Brexit.

>

> Now, she has to make deals with a bunch of corrupt

> extremists to stay in power, and stares down the

> long barrel of Brexit negotiations where she'll

> get hammered by the other side who smell blood and

> weakness. Surrounded by bench warmers (you

> wouldn't want power now if you were a long term

> thinker - so it's all 2nd XI around her) who want

> her place. A modern tragic hero.

>

>

> Not that I voted for her, but I feel a degree of

> sadness for her.

[????]

Sooooo...

When before she called an election 'she had no mandate' said Labour Party supporters

When she did (and it looked very favourable for her) 'she's an opportunist wasting time blah blah' said Labour party supporters

When it went tits up for her "we're delighted ha ha" said Labour Party supporters

Now the dust has settled "What a waste of money" say Labour party supporters

Can we just have a bit of clarity on your exact line here please Labour party supporters?

[uncleglen]

No surprises here then except the turn out for 18-24 year olds was 58% as compared with 43% in 2015.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/06/13/how-britain-voted-2017-general-election/

[rendelharris]

May's simmering in a soup of her own making. Firstly there was her extraordinary behaviour over Brexit, where she decided, despite apparently being a remainer herself, to go for the hardest possible stance instead of seeking the best possible deal, boasting about being a bloody difficult woman etc. Then calling an election she didn't need to call solely in order to solidify her own position. Then releasing a manifesto which had no costings and little in the way of policy. Then running a shocking campaign, dodging debates, refusing interviews etc etc. And now putting the final hole in her sinking ship by desperately forging an alliance with a deeply hateful political grouping. No sympathy I'm afraid.

[red devil]

Welcome to the world of spin Quids...:)

[????]

rendell your partisanship is without waver and shines through like a huge red rosette - are you in fact Helen Hayes?

[Jenny1]

miga Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I feel very sorry for May, on a personal level.

I'm afraid I agree with edcam on this one, so feel no sympathy for TM.

She knows exactly how much damage Brexit will do to the country and yet grimly sticks to executing it. This is because to do otherwise would be to acknowledge her own and her party's complete ineptitude. If she or her party were really thinking about the public good they'd have set up a cross party commission immediately after the referendum result last year to work out how to move forwards. By mounting the referendum in the first place they directly caused the biggest challenge to this country's economy - and thus to our public services - for decades. Having done that they should have faced up to the magnitude of what was going on rather than focusing on desperately clinging to power.

I'm sure TM is good at passing exams. But it takes more than that to lead a political party, let alone a country.

[rendelharris]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> rendell your partisanship is without waver and

> shines through like a huge red rosette - are you

> in fact Helen Hayes?

Not last time I looked, though I wouldn't mind her wages...yes, I support the Labour party, that doesn't necessarily make me wrong (well it may in your eyes) - what do you disagree with in what I said about May?

[Lordship 516]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> rendell your partisanship is without waver and

> shines through like a huge red rosette - are you

> in fact Helen Hayes?

Hey Quids - are you Lynton Crosby..?

[Jenny1]

miga Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>she takes the reins as

> the country is looking down the abyss on the back

> of a decision she herself knew was stupid, obliged

> to follow through in the aftermath by the swivel

> eyed loons in her party that precipitated the

> debacle of Brexit, and in the medium to long term

> looking at a pension and care mountain that is

> insurmountable unless some radical policy change

> is made.

Meant to say that I completely agree re the swivel-eyed loons.

[miga]

Someone will have to do something about pensions and care (or watch that deficit rocket) in the years to come, and it won't be popular.

[keano77]

They'll raise the pension age to 100 eventually - and you'll only be able to collect it if accompanied by a parent

[Sue]

Jenny1 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> miga Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I feel very sorry for May, on a personal level.

>

> I'm afraid I agree with edcam on this one, so feel

> no sympathy for TM.

>

> She knows exactly how much damage Brexit will do

> to the country and yet grimly sticks to executing

> it. This is because to do otherwise would be to

> acknowledge her own and her party's complete

> ineptitude. If she or her party were really

> thinking about the public good they'd have set up

> a cross party commission immediately after the

> referendum result last year to work out how to

> move forwards. By mounting the referendum in the

> first place they directly caused the biggest

> challenge to this country's economy - and thus to

> our public services - for decades. Having done

> that they should have faced up to the magnitude of

> what was going on rather than focusing on

> desperately clinging to power.

>

> I'm sure TM is good at passing exams. But it takes

> more than that to lead a political party, let

> alone a country.

Agree.

[steveo]

It was all appalling marketing.

The so called 'dementia tax' was actually a good idea but the Tories couldn't be bothered to explain it and the people couldn't be bothered to understand it. It was a huge improvement on what we have at the moment and would surely have made the lives of those with dementia and their families a helluva lot better.

But don't let the truth stand in the way of a catchy headline or propaganda point.

[Loz]

rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Loz Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> > rendelharris Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > > I assume Lordship means, and I agree, that she

> > > should apologise for calling an entirely

> > > unnecessary general election

> >

> > Nice try, Rendel, but looks like you were a bit

> > off the mark!

>

> Really? I look to Lordship to correct me, but I

> see nothing in his or her posts which contradicts

> my opinions...

Not a contradiction. It was more that his post four after yours had zero in common with your theory. Yours was kind of sensible.