Man stabbed to death near East Dulwich station

[Ma]

ressia Wrote:

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> i cant believe how many irrelevant comments are

> being made on this page...

>

> THIS YOUNG MAN WAS SOMEBODYS SON, A BROTHER, A

> FRIEND AND NOW ANOTHER STATISTIC.

>

> Do you really believe this situation is going to

> get better unless the goverment has a long hard

> think about the cuts it is about to make??

>

> yeah great idea Tories, lets remove the

> playgrounds, lets take away after school clubs,

> sports activities, lets slash funding from anyone

> and everyone thats trying to help young people

> engage and enjoy a normal way of life, lets just

> stop re-producing right now because slowly slowly

> WE are killing our own future.

>

> We think its bad now? Give it another 5 years and

> the results will be horrific.

>

> The Victim...

>

> You may think that because your child is tucked up

> safely in bed, because your child has a private

> education and can play the piano it does NOT for

> one second mean your child is safe... At least

> 35% of the chldren stabbed/shot in the last few

> years have been innocent victims in the wrong

> place at the wrong time.

>

> The Offender...

>

> You may think that the young offenders behaviour

> is completely in-excusable and i agree, there is

> absolutley no reason to take anothers life BUT

> these young people feel they have reason and maybe

> if i was from a broken, poverty stricken home

> where sexual abuse and violence was an EVERY-DAY

> occurance, having to steal in order to eat, no one

> believing in you, No Hope, then im sure i would

> feel like a had reason... And 75% of these young

> offenders do suffer on a daily basis, they're not

> taught Right from Wrong like we were as children,

> they're set boundries like we are, they feel they

> dont stand a chance and if we dont reach out soon

> our OWN children will NOT stand a chance.

This is the most sensible thing that has been said on this forum to date. Well done Ressia. So the young lad was an East Dulwicher, why PRINT the ROAD he lives on? His Killers are still at LARGE, no one know what happened whether it was a ongoing problem from before or not. You are putting his FAMILY at RISK. PLEASE STOP!

[louisiana]

Ma, his street was given in the police statement and is already being reproduced on other websites as of yesterday, so I don't think not pasting the police statement here would make much difference, though to me it does not seem a sensible thing for the police to have done given the circumstances.

[DJKillaQueen]

Then move the thread DC...it's a public forum and people should be able to discuss sensibly some of the issues such a tragic event raises. The title does not say 'book of condolences'. I don't think anyone has been disrespectful to the victims of this crime.

[kford]

The latest: http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23919210-teenager-stabbed-to-death-in-front-of-shocked-bus-passengers.do

[The Minkey]

Shots fired at random into the crowd, no evidence whatsoever as yet that Daniel or any of the injured were gang members. To imply that casualties of gang warfare are limited to gang members are inaccurate and unhelpful.

My condolences to Daniel's family and friends who are surely enduring the worst of nightmares.

[david_carnell]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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> Then move the thread DC...it's a public forum and

> people should be able to discuss sensibly some of

> the issues such a tragic event raises. The title

> does not say 'book of condolences'. I don't think

> anyone has been disrespectful to the victims of

> this crime.

1) Where would you like it moved to?

2) I didn't say you couldn't discuss the issues that surround the case, I asked people not to discuss details of it. Who did what, where etc.... Not only because it's distasteful but because it may well prejudice any investigation.

3) I asked for respect in use and tone of language....not something particularly revolutionary. But it goes a long way.

This isn't some assault on freedom of speech so don't make it out to be one. You may not think it has been disrespectful but the Forum Team have had complaints. I'm trying to keep everybody happy. I'd appreciate your cooperation.

[Ma]

kford Wrote:

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> The latest:

> http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-239

> 19210-teenager-stabbed-to-death-in-front-of-shocke

> d-bus-passengers.do

Oh GOSH, a handsome lad....RIP Daniel

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

How utterly awful :(

[louisiana]

DJKQ, (as the OP) I beg to differ. There have been people posting on here who do not seem to see a human life taken as a human life taken.

This is purely speculation, but Daniel seems to have been trying to find his way home, given where he lived and where he was going on that bus. Boy, had I been on a bus, maybe I'd have been going towards KCH (like the teen who was shot), but he was I think trying to get home.

This is a terrible thing that has happened. A tragedy.

The best thing is that everyone, but everyone! who saw *anything* on the pavement in LL, on that 176 bus, at the Club, all call Crimestoppers and gives their evidence, *in confidence*. Too often perpetrators are not prosecuted successfully when witnesses fail to come forward. It's hard enough for jurors without this. People really must come forward and say what they know.

[DJKillaQueen]

This isn't some assault on freedom of speech so don't make it out to be one.

I haven't made it out to be any such thing.

And just because a couple of people complain doesn't mean their complaints are founded. People can be over sensitive and complain at the drop of a hat.

Absolutely, speculation on details that may hinder any investigation or lead to misrepresentation of the facts should be discouraged but if you read most of the posts, any discussion of details have been in response to articles published by the press. Where a post is crossing the line, you have the power to remove it.

For me personally.....any incident involving 15 youths chasing someone before murdering them is what I'd define as a gang attack (whether the victim is an anonymous passer by or known to his attackers). A 13 year old turned up with a gun! What kind of 13 year old can get his hands on a gun? That in itself is a link to criminal activity (be it gang or otherwise). To anybody who works with teenagers and gangs this has all the signs of being 'turf/ gang' related. I can't see what is so upsetting about saying that - unless some people really find that too horrific to contemplate.

Hoping that it was just some everyday row that somehow got out of hand....or that 15 youths including a 13 year old with a gun just happened to be out for a walk whilst a Birthday Party descended into a brawl nearby is insane. They are all clearly linked and there no possible excuse or justification for the attacks and murder that followed.

That perhaps is the most awful thing of all......that a young man died for what? The senseless gratification of a pack of out of control thugs. How will his parents ever be able to make sense of that?

[HAL9000]

Just to make the point: the 13-year-old suspect arrested by the police is unlikely to have been the shooter: it is very unlikely that he would have been released on police bail if there was any identification or forensic evidence to that effect.

Therefore, there is currently no evidence in the public domain that a 13-year-old was the shooter. What is known is that the gunshot victim was 14 years old.

[edresi10]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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>

> And just because a couple of people complain

> doesn't mean their complaints are founded. People

> can be over sensitive and complain at the drop of

> a hat.

You arrogance knows no bounds does it. Some of the comments on here have caused offence whether they were meant to or not, so you have been asked to refrain from discussing certain things on this particular thread. Why cant you just do it instead of trying to argue the entire time- its boring. People want to offer their condolences after this tragic incident, but you, yet again want to turn it into the DJ Killer Queen show- pathetic.

[DJKillaQueen]

Doesn't even dignify a response.

[Ma]

FOR GOODNESS SAKE PEOPLE, GROW UP OR GET LOST. Seems to have turned into a War Zone on this forum.

The Police are investigating, the journalist are all pinned to the story, let us just wait for the proper story rather than just speculating. This is bizarre!

[DJKillaQueen]

War zone? People are emotive because it's a very sad and shocking event (that's understandable). It's possible to have sensible discussion within that too though.

[pk]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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>I don't think anyone has been disrespectful to the victims of

> this crime.

so you really don't think that the following are disrespectful?!?:

[the parents failed] "to look out for their kids or change the culture they live in"

"The good thing here is that they seem to only shoot each other"

"It appears the young black youth have no interest in life, other than being a gang member who carries weapons,and wants to emulate Los Angeles Ganksters."

[SeanMacGabhann]

DJ - other posters have mentioned it on the thread, other posters again have complained to admin and one of the moderators has asked people to take a step back

There are clues there

it would be good if the thread could be kept open but like any emotive thread where people's feelings are running high and others are raw it is close to being closed. So please, anyone, no more smart comebacks or pointless speculation.

[brum]

Well said Sean. Let's hope the perpetrators of this hideous crime are apprehended very quickly. If the incident took place partly on a bus, then the Police may have some useful CCTV footage to work on. If anyone witnessed the events then please step forward and talk to the Police. This is a wonderful community and we need to show unity and strength to prevent such a terrible thing from happening again.

[Santerme]

Some people seem to need to vent on every subject under the sun.

[Keef]

Some people seem to need to vent on every subject under the sun.

Exactly, and they seem to be experts on it too.

What brum said.

[louisiana]

At the risk of boring people, I really would like to recommend that people watch

"Scenes From a Teenage Killing".

It's on iplayer until 10pm tonight or so.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00xz0px/Scenes_from_a_Teenage_Killing/

It's 2 hours long.

I've just had a PM from someone who was really moved by it, hence my re-posting on here. I'd be surprised if it did not in some way affect your views - in the widest sense - about this kind of crime.

My original post follows...

****

Moving, thoughtful, worth your time.

Includes interviews with the family of Ricardo Cunha (murdered in West Norwood).

On iPlayer until this coming Tuesday night.

*****

Bafta-winning director Morgan Matthews's landmark film exploring the impact of teenage killings on families and communities across Britain, an emotional journey that chronicles every teenager who died as a result of violence in 2009 in the UK. Harrowing actuality filmed in the immediate aftermath combines with moving testimony from the spectrum of people affected in the wake of violent death. Filmed over eighteen months, this epic documentary is the BBC's most ambitious film to date about youth violence.

The film questions society's attitudes towards young people whilst probing the meaning behind terminology such as 'gang violence' or 'gang-related' often used in connection with teenage killings. It reveals the reality of the teenage murder toll across one year, connecting the viewer with the people behind the headlines and the emotional consequences of violent death. Differing perspectives from families, friends, passers-by and the police are explored with intimacy and depth. Together they reflect the collective impact of a teenage killing on an entire community.

Travelling the length and breadth of Britain, the film meets people of different religion, race and class. It tells the story of Shevon Wilson, whose misreported murder divided a community; the teenage girl who discovered she was pregnant to her boyfriend shortly after he was stabbed to death; the nurse who fought to save a dying teenager who was stabbed outside her home; and the outspoken East End twins who lost a mother and daughter in the same attack. The documentary names every teenager to die as a result of violence in 2009. Haunting footage of shrines is a reminder of the countless families who continue to suffer as a result of violence. Powerful and compelling, Scenes from a Teenage Killing is a poignant and brutal reminder of the needless waste of young potential.

***

[cookie]

I watched "Scenes From a Teenage Killing" last night and found it incredibly moving.

One key point I took from the programe is how wildly inaccurate press reports rapidly become peoples' perception of the truth, hence not always sound basis on which to base opinions.

Condolences go out to the family of Daniel.

[corinne R]

victoriapeckham Wrote:

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> I am really baffled why, if there was a huge fight

> inside the club, the staff kicked out dozens of

> angry, violent fighting kids into the street,

> without first calling the police to make sure they

> cleared the area. Perhaps someone from the Hamlet

> Football Club could explain.

Quoted in tonight's Evening Standard...

[louisiana]

Cookie, I'm with you on that. Once something (false) gets into the media, it's almost set in stone, and as we know on this forum, the media quite often take their info from nothing more than a forum post reported at second or third hand.

In the film, Shevon's friends all think his killer is a relative of the pub owners, when he is merely a pub customer; while the pub owners definitely start out thinking Shevon has some kind of gang involvement, when he seems to be the entire opposite and had done no worse than sit on someone's car bonnet in the street. And then those cliches/pigeonholes get embedded in the press reporting and the grudges are left hanging in the air.

There's some really harrowing stuff in the film. But TBH, the death of a youngster has always got to be harrowing. As someone says, it is not natural for parents to be burying their children.

[legalbeagle]

Some of the posts on this thread are really shocking. Just because we have a right to say what we like, it doesn't mean we should. Freedom of speech only works if we accept responsibilities that go with the right. And here we have a responsibility to our community, not to speculate or misreport, to ourselves to be thoughtful and reflective about the society we live in, and to this child's family, who deserve some sympathy and humanity to deal with the seven kinds of hell they must be in right now.

Of course we can say what we like. But whether we should or not is an entirely separate, and far more pertinent question. No, this is not an RIP thread. But perhaps it should be. Would it matter, would it really matter, if we just held fire on the theorising and opinions for a day or two, and reflected on the dreadful inescapable grief this child's family now live with?

There can be no sharper pain than that of losing a child.

The rest is just noise.