Harris Boys East Dulwich

[cuppa tea]

I don't think I'm naive at all. I've lived in Peckham for 14 years afterall! But phrases like 'military style discipline' and 'semi-feral spoilt brats' sit uncomfortably with me. For example if teachers had this prejudice, how does that indicate respect to the kids in any way? Why should they earn it if people think this of them and that they are beyond hope? And what's wrong with choosing what A-levels and degrees they do? They know best what suits their own needs and personal development, rather than fitting in with the governments agenda for what people should be employed to do. From what i can gather it's them that have caused the unemployment issues in the first place.

[samstopit]

Please tell me we are not talking seriously about bringing back the cane?

We had the cane at school too and were hit with rulers. I can remember children being dragged into the teacher's store cupboard by their hair and given the ruler. One girl wet herself with the fear of it and was hit again. This was normal, a state primary school in a nice area.

I for one am very glad that we have moved on this.

[new mother]

"The fact there are so many disruptive children in the education system needs some reflection on the system as an institution itself and not just locating the problem with parenting. In the many schools I have visited I see children already turned off from learning from aged 5 becuase of their early experiences of education."

BB - we disagree completely I can see.

THese children aged 5 are turned off education because it is the first example of consistent discipline (aka "parenting")they have faced.

Allowing bad behaviour in schools exacerbates the issues these children have. THey have enough to deal with surely from their backgrounds of split families, poor housing, with "uncles" galore, never meeting anyone who has a job or pays their way in life, alcolholism in the home, drug use, appalling diets and zero supervision or encouragement to do well and better their lot.

Give them a chance - ensure attentive classes where children like these can be set a good example and "good" pupils who want to get on can learn in peace, for goodness sake. THis is the only way any of these children are ever going to break the cycle and lead the meaningful lives that their parents didn't.

[zeban]

'uncles galore'? I don't understand what you mean-could you elaborate please?

I'm also a bit confused at what your point is?

[new mother]

Z, by "uncles", I meant that the mother has lots of temporary partners and the child has no stable male role model. (I didn't mean the mother had lots of brothers!)

Yes, I totally agree. THere are plenty of ch from well off bakcgrounds who are appallingly behaved and either totally spoilt or ignorsd. Here in ED, sadly we are not talking about very rich people! We are talking about the problems the local schools apparently have with the combination of well behaved children plus very badly behaved ch and whether Gove' s disciploine ideas are benefiical or not for improving the behaviour of the latter group and therefore the overall group....

[zeban]

I'd argue that many people are indeed really rather well off in ED! Even if they don't believe it themselves!!! Just because you might not be quite able to afford private school or are choosing to send your children to the good local schools that doesn't mean you're not well off. If you can afford to buy a house in ED, or move to ED for the good schools you're well off, and it doesn't mean the children coming from those families are not the children causing disruptions in class. Look at the thread on swearing for example!

[helena handbasket]

Zeban you have GOT to be kidding.

[zeban]

Which part do you think I'm kidding about?

[helena handbasket]

zeban Wrote:

Look at the thread on swearing for

> example!

[zeban]

Thought so HH. If they're calling other children gits at 5 years old and telling the teacher to f off when they ask them to apologise where do you draw the line? So no I'm not kidding. That's sounds disruptive to me. How do you know they're not going to continue into primary school with that kind of attitude?

[cn150]

Hello,

I'm cn150 who started a similar discussion back in October 2010. Is it true about the school potentially using the Athenlay sports ground? Has anyone else heard about this?

[h1981]

cn150 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hello,

> I'm cn150 who started a similar discussion back in

> October 2010. Is it true about the school

> potentially using the Athenlay sports ground? Has

> anyone else heard about this?

I have heard this is true, though not directly from the school. My son is starting at Harris in September and has been playing for Athenlay FC for a few years so the drums have been beating from a couple of directions!

[BB100]

new mother Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> BB - we disagree completely I can see.

>

As usual! I do agree with you that disruptive pupils are a big problem but laying the blame solely on parents is a mistake; although that is where it starts it is a more complex than that. Poor teaching, poor environment, lack of facilties, implicit discrimination, etc can all contribute and pointing the finger at parents can ignore the wider issues. I have watched children who were lovely in nursery become disruptive in Year 1 because of a range of reasons directly contributed by the school. Conversely I have seen troubled children with a difficult family background really blossom at school with supportive guidance from caring adults. A good school has positive relationships with their pupils, not regimented sargent majors. I'm not talking about wishy-washy relationships that let children do what they like but respectful, reciprical relationships that provide clear and consistent boundaries and listen to and support children's individual needs. The best schools I've worked in are the ones like that.

[DenmotherSmith]

This evening I attended a music recital at my sons primary school, I spotted an older boy from Harris Boys AED the older sibling of a child performing and grilled him as to his experiences of the school especially discipline etc.. He was a charming well spoken, polite boy, said he loved the school, was in the choir, choral choir, and jazz band and that there is also a reggae band and soon to be steel pans, he loves music and is really happy with the music teachers and their enthusiasm. Art is also a favourite lesson, with a great room and new photography lab. There is lots of sports, not his favourite but enjoying it. And no, he has never had any discipline metered out to him, he said if you misbehave then you suffer the consequences. I asked if he had been the victim of any bullying and he said no, and that anyone caught bullying suffered the severest of discipline. My conversation with him did much to calm my worries about the school (especially music as my son loves to sing) and soothe my disappointment of my son getting his fifth choice.

Thought I'd share this, hopefully it might be helpful to others in the same boat.

[skyblue]

Denmothersmith I am really pleased for you. I hope that every thing turns out well for you and your son - I have a feeling it will.