Brexit View

[rendelharris]

keano77 Wrote:

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The oldies have seen all these

> prophesies of 'economic disaster' before, have

> taken a hit, got on with it and bounced back. One

> more little hiccough like Brexit is just something

> to take it your stride.

Well maybe...though in those previous recessions we hadn't removed our free trade agreement with our biggest trading partner, had we - I wonder how we would have made it through previous recessions without that to fall back on?

[red devil]

keano77 Wrote:

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> Steady on red devil.

>

> When I first came to London I rented dodgy bedsits

> which cost a fortune relatively. Two gas rings.

> Shared loo down the landing. Racing to get the

> Evening News and Standard at 5pm to flick through

> the jobs section then down to smelly phone kiosks

> with a fist full of coins to try and arrange

> interviews. No discounted bus and tube travel in

> those days.

>

> Now my son, like most students, is at university

> in self-contained student accommodation with

> en-suite, an iPhone in his pocket, travel pass and

> an allowance - all paid for by parents.

>

> When I see bleeding heart millennials on telly

> saying their lives are ruined when they haven't

> even started it makes me laugh. The baby boomers

> you so snobbily dismiss have dressed our

> snowflakes in designer clothes, paid for

> extra-curricular activities, school trips, treated

> them to foreign holidays, bought them the latest

> technical gizmos, funded their proms as they

> 'graduate' from secondary education, the 'gap

> yar', and college rent and living expenses. And if

> there's any money left from what the baby boomers

> scrimped and saved after Old age care fees the

> millennials will inherit that and probably

> squander it on fast cars or exotic holidays.

You really must get out of that metroplitan elite bubble you clearly live in. You paint a picture of the few, not the many. My friend's son left University with ?40+k debt, the majority taken up with fees and accommodation costs, living in a house share that would've made the Young Ones proud. None of this paid for by his parents. Their daughter started University last year and quit after one year, panicked by the debt.

> Yes University fees are a big worry but blame

> Clegg and Vince Cable for that. If people were

> silly enough to vote for the Lib Dems don't come

> crying to me.

It doesn't matter who is to blame for them, they're a fact of life for today's younger generation, something the Baby Boomers didn't have to worry about...

[JoeLeg]

keano77

> Which I suppose substantiates my point above to

> Alan Medic's link.

But Rendell also points out that we've had these promises of a golden economic time for all before, and they never really translate into the magnificence predicted except for the few at the top. The gap between rich and poor has never been wider, and we're told Brexit will help but we've heard this before.

Forgive us if we're sceptical.

The oldies have seen all these

> prophesies of 'economic disaster' before, have

> taken a hit, got on with it and bounced back. One

> more little hiccough like Brexit is just something

> to take it your stride.

I would avert that Brexit is sufficiently unprecedented (if that's grammatically acceptable) that we can't responsibly refer to it as a little hiccuping. We don't know what it will be yet. The economic/employment environment isn't the same, people are worried.

[keano77]

It's too early to say whether young people have had their future stolen from them. We all need to wait and see what deal we agree with the EU, or none at all.

The second stage is once a deal is agreed, or not, this country needs to put in place structures to attract businesses to our shores and enable people to go out and thrive. Logically this means low taxes so workers can spend more to benefit the economy. There are big implications here for state spending of course.

[JoeLeg]

keano77 Wrote:

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> It's too early to say whether young people have

> had their future stolen from them.

Well, you may believe that, I might even believe that, but there's a lot of them out there who don't, and they're entitled to be reassured. They get labelled Remoaners, Remainiacs and deniers of democracy, when all they want is a future. They need to be engaged with constructively.

We all need to

> wait and see what deal we agree with the EU, or

> none at all.

>

> The second stage is once a deal is agreed, or not,

> this country needs to put in place structures to

> attract businesses to our shores and enable people

> to go out and thrive. Logically this means low

> taxes so workers can spend more to benefit the

> economy. There are big implications here for state

> spending of course.

But as people are probably tired of me pointing out, we also need a cultural change if we're to prosper. Surely that should be starting now? All I get from this govt is a lack of detail and an assurance that I can trust them.

Again, forgive me if I'm sceptical...

[red devil]

I can see you've clearly spent many minutes thinking through all that keano...:)

[keano77]

There's lots to think through red devil which raises bigger questions than Brexit, such as the effectiveness of Western Capitalism itself with the rise of China as an industrial giant.

That's a separate thread in itself.

[red devil]

Would all that be related to the 'big idea' that you have that we're not yet ready for?...:)

*Knit one, pearl one....knit one, pearl one...*

[JoeLeg]

But a fascinating subject!

Many, many years ago a friends father (who was admittedly an avowed communist, the kind of guy who thinks the SWP are soft), when asked what the future held said "China. It's China, because they think in true long term ways. And there's so many of them."

And he's turning out to be right. Although he's probably spinning in his grave at what they've done with 'communism', his prediction of how China would affect the rest of the world is becoming startlingly accurate. Post-Brexit our relationship with China will be more important than ever.

[keano77]

I'm waiting for the call from our negotiating team red devil. You'll understand I can't say too much at the moment because of EU spies.

[red devil]

Right on cue...http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40861225

[JohnL]

Someone on Twitter was saying yesterday that all the regulatory bodies etc, that need to be set-up need should already be in progress if we aim to be out of the EU by 2019.

But no work being done on creating them whatsoever yet.

[JohnL]

keano77 Wrote:

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> I'm waiting for the call from our negotiating team

> red devil. You'll understand I can't say too much

> at the moment because of EU spies.

Everything I hear on here goes straight to Guy Verhofstadt :)

[EDOldie]

red devil Wrote:

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> Right on

> cue...http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40861225

What a coincidence

[red devil]

Old and cynical. Can't wait to retire!...

[JohnL]

I can't believe Gina Miller is being threatened with acid attacks now.

It's not because of what she did - I'm sure it's because of what she did and her race/gender. If a white british man took court proceedings over brexit - these threats wouldn't be happening IMHO.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/antibrexit-campaigner-gina-miller-scared-to-leave-her-home-after-acid-attack-threats-a3608161.html

[Loz]

JohnL Wrote:

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> I can't believe Gina Miller is being threatened

> with acid attacks now.

>

> It's not because of what she did - I'm sure it's

> because of what she did and her race/gender. If a

> white british man took court proceedings over

> brexit - these threats wouldn't be happening

> IMHO.

I think you are severely underestimating the idiots of this world.

[Alan Medic]

http://uk.businessinsider.com/lord-heseltine-a-window-of-opportunity-to-stop-brexit-2017-8?r=US&IR=T

Interesting interview with Heseltine.

[red devil]

Indeed. Clever that he persuaded May to appoint "the right people to prove the job can't be done."...

[Alan Medic]

Very clever. That really made me laugh though it's not a laughing matter.

[Seabag]

He's the most 'strong and stable' out of the lot of them, hence May got shot of him

They really are a bunch of tits, but I respect Hezzer's measured approach

"Will of the people"

*waves rattle & inserts teeth*

[Loz]

Ah, the Daily Mash strikes again... How are you pretending Brexit is still a good idea?

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/features/how-are-you-pretending-brexit-is-still-a-good-idea-20170810133830

[Alan Medic]

I hate this sort of crap being called 'Exclusive'. It has existed since before the EU. If you want an EXCLUSIVE, tell us the opposite is happening.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/12/irish-citizens-get-right-live-work-uk-part-british-isles-schengen/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw

[Loz]

Looks like Brexit means ... oh, who knows?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40922177

[keano77]

Agree it's as clear as mud Loz. I see Farage tweeted Newsnight tonight to say it's a betrayal of Brexit. Hopefully it will become clearer in the next few days when people analyse this 'discussion document'.

I suspect the proposal means to address the following:

1. As the UK already complies with EU customs union requirements it would be bloody minded of the EU to cause huge customs clearance disruption immediately post-Brexit. All our manufacturing and production processes meet EU requirements. This will not change overnight.

2. It strives to avoid a cliff edge for business.

3. Goes some way to assure the Republic of Ireland about border and trade fears

4. Seeks a temporary seemless non-tariff trading arrangement while allowing the UK to negotiate trade deals with the rest of the world.

What the EU will make of it remains to be seen. A version of this exists with the EU and Turkey so it's not unprecedented.