Secondary School Allocations

[FatherJack]

Can someone please explain how this system works.....

We have been offered a school that did not feature on our application, yet we have been advised to say yes while we appeal or hope for a waiting list offer. If EVERYONE does this nothing will become available until September. Or is there a method in what feels like madness?

Roll on the "shake up" but will there be anything to shake........??

BB100 a low birth year? Southwark were unable to offer 40 children a place. St Michael and All Angels are closing and The Academy at Peckham have reduced their intake.

Arrrrrrrggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[intexasatthe moment]

Renata ,sorry to have 2 subjects going on here - school improvement and secondary school admissions - but is there any way of a break down of the GCSE figures quoted above ,refering to East Dulwich Harris Girls ?

Just wondering about the exams actually taken to achieve the 90% figure .

How many were GCSEs and how ,many were other GCSE equivalent exams ?

[BB100]

I know it won't feel like it but 2000-2002 had the lowest recorded birth-rates in 10 years.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_population/FM1_35/FM1_No35.PDF

It's the potential private school kids that clog up the system and make it look like there are less places than there are.

[Fuschia]

BB100 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I know it won't feel like it but 2000-2002 had the

> lowest recorded birth-rates in 10 years.

> http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_popul

> ation/FM1_35/FM1_No35.PDF

>

but school aged populations in london have been boosted by immigration and a static housing market, particularly at primary age

[Monkey]

I feel your pain... Re: Harris Girls' School, sadly, I am less worried about the GSCE results than the metal detectors the police felt they had to instal at the entrance of the school's end of year party last December.

[BB100]

Probably. There didn't seem the same problems getting our darlings into primary for the 1999/2000 birth cohort as there was in the few years prior or post. Was just trying to give them some hope Fuschia!

[tallgirl]

I hope you all end up with a school you like

[Renata Hamvas]

intexasatthemoment, I don't have the answer at my fingertips, but there is more information on their results here:

http://www.hgaed.org.uk/48/exam-results

Fatherjack- the initial system works like this. Schools have different admissions policies eg Kingsdale has a lottery system while Charter/Harris Academies/Aske's broadly go on distance from the school linked with banding results.

Schools DO NOT know which order you have put them in. This changed a couple of years ago to prevent schools selecting pupils on their older of preference. London operates a Pan-London scheme. Parents apply for up to 6 schools and each school gets the details of any child who has applied to them. The school X, may then band the pupils or select on musical or other ability. The pupils are then ranked by things such as SEN, siblings, scholarships/ability in the schools speciality if relevant, within the different academic bands (LEA test or the school's own test). If for example, the school has an intake of 100 pupils per year, the details of the 100 top ranked children are flagged up and sent back to the central computer for crunching. This is done by a set date for all schools. Some pupils may be eligible for a place in school X, Y and Z but X may not be their highest available preference school eg third on their form, but school Z has indicated they fit their criteria and they put Z second on their form. In this case the school Z will be informed that the child is on their offer list, while for schools X and Y they will need to take the next child down on their rank list. The data flows back and forth until the list of pupils matches the number of spaces for year 7 entry. For some schools, they won't fill their places with people who applied to them as many of them may have put other more popular schools higher up their list. There are also pupils who unfortunately weren't high up enough in the rank order to get allocated any of their preferred schools, they are allocated a school where there are still spaces by their LEA. This system does mean that a child A, putting a popular school sixth may be offered it, if their top five schools didn't have them high enough in their ranking order. Also, a child B, putting the same school first, may not get it, if they were ranked below A.

The rank orders are used for the waiting list orders. In two weeks time, parents need to accept/decline the school offered. Even if unhappy with the offered school, without confirmation of a place at another school, parents should accept the offer made. Some children leave the area/country after applying in the Autumn and others decide to take up places at independent schools. This releases up some places after the initial acceptance date. Offers are sent out to people on the waiting list of the schools where places have become available (normally just before the Easter holidays). These offers are accepted/declined, releasing another batch of school places. This goes on until September in a trickle down fashion. I know of a few children changing schools in the Autumn as a place became available at their desired school. This is why, if you are unhappy with you allocated school you should not rush out to buy uniform, as you may be contacted in August with an offer from the school you and your child wanted!

When you contact admissions departments at schools that you applied to and weren't offered, be aware that they don't know where you positioned them on your form. It is important to find out your position on the waiting list and to indicate realistically your chances, find out how much movement there was on the waiting list last year. You should also highlight any changes to circumstances, eg if your child has recently been statemented, you have a sibling at the school that you forgot to enter on the form, or who has recently moved to the school from another one. Also, in the case of schools allocating on distance, if you have moved closer to the school. These points are also valid for appeals. Other grounds for appeal include your child being ill eg on the day of a music/11+ exam and you have proof of their exceptional ability, eg grade 5 piano at aged 10 or SATs level 5 in all subjects in year 4.

If you have no real grounds for appeal, your appeal is unlikely to be successful.

I hope this is helpful for the parents out there going through a time at the moment

Renata

Cllr Renata Hamvas

Labour Councillor for Peckham Rye Ward

[email protected]

02075255223

[Dorothy]

Given the pressure on state secondary school places in ED, it seems a terrible shame that Kingsdale does *not* apply an admissions by distance policy. Like the private schools, it is now a local school which is not available to many local children who would like to go. I am having a deal of difficulty in explaining the logic of this to my 10 year old daughter.

[maxti]

It would seem that a high number of Lewisham residents (87%) received their first choice school - speaking to a few of the parents I know they had Kingsdale...so they cross over boroughs....now it seems that many parents in southwark are having to take a lewisham school because their first choice kingsdale has been hugely oversubscribed and the places taken by lewisham residents...its utter madness and completely wrong - I want a southwark school as its where I pay my council tax why should lewisham get my childs place?

I am so angry and disillusioned with the system - we did not get any of our choices - so allocated Harris Girls and i dont care how fabulous it MAY become its not for my daughter right now...I could go on and on but will restrain myself

So incredibly stressed and upset right now and finding it hard to work...my daughter is upset and another thing many parents getting an average school having to hide their true feelings to their child.....am writing to harriet harman even if its just to vent....

[intexasatthe moment]

Renata - thanks for link ,which I see specifies GCSE passes ,so presumably no GSCE exam equivalents .

Does indeed look like a success story - well done East Dulwich Girls !

Thanks also for details as to how allocations work .

Not sure I can quite follow it - my lack of brain power ,not your clarity ,to blame I think.

Am I right in thinking distance from school doesn't come into play for lots of secondary schools ?

It's the banding that always confuses me ,surely if a school is looking for 10 children to fill the top ability band then they may have to draw from a bigger geographical area than the one necessary to provide the more average ,middle bands .

So your distance from school would be less important than which band you fall into ,unless its Kingsdale which uses bands and a lottery where I suppose distance doesn't matter at all .

Although Charter take distance into account ,don't they ?

[Debi]

I'm sorry for those of you who are understandably stressed and unhappy and hope you get a school you are happy with at the end of the process.

Re Kingsdale not using distance as a criteria - if you look at the school's immediate surroundings, you will see milllion pound+ houses where any children would be guaranteed a place. Would that be better? Choosing by distance can also be seen as encouraging those who have the means to move into a particular area, squeezing out those for whom moving is not an option. It also encourages fraud whereby people use false addresses etc in order to fulfil this criteria. While I don't think anyone would describe the present situation as perfect, with a lottery at least that way everyone is on a level playing field and has an equal chance.

[intexasatthe moment]

I can't help feeling that all schools should have the same admissions polcies - tricky though because location can have a massive impact .

Which makes me think that banding ( but not banding related to national scores ) and lotteries are the way to go .

It's a complex area - and at the moment one which causes huge stress for all involved .

[BB100]

It's thanks to Lewisham residents that Kingsdale has increased its popularity. It was the Head's lateral thinking that sent him off to Lewisham to create a demand, when he couldn't fill his school with the locals. Empty places means having to take in children when they are excluded from other schools. And Maxti I've lost count of how many Southwark residents that take places at Askes, Chelwood, Fairlawn, Turnham, and the once-upon-a-time popular Kender primary from Lewisham residents. It's swings and roundabouts on that arguement but you're right the school system isn't fair.

Harris Crystal Palace seem to have got the right formula where they have random allocation but it's within specific catchment areas. 90% is in an inner band and 10% on an outer band. That does sound fairer.

[Keef]

I pay my council tax why should lewisham get my childs place?

I understand you're a bit hacked off, but if this is what you believe, then you should only be able to go to schools in your own borough, otherwise you're always going to be taking someone's place aren't you. In which case, I hope noone had Haberdashers down.

[clux]

Did anyone get a school they wanted?

[tllm2]

We did - our 1st choice .... really not to gloat, but just to say that some people have been served well by the process.

[Queenie23]

maxti Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It would seem that a high number of Lewisham

> residents (87%) received their first choice school

> - speaking to a few of the parents I know they had

> Kingsdale...so they cross over boroughs....now it

> seems that many parents in southwark are having to

> take a lewisham school because their first choice

> kingsdale has been hugely oversubscribed and the

> places taken by lewisham residents...its utter

> madness and completely wrong - I want a southwark

> school as its where I pay my council tax why

> should lewisham get my childs place?

>

> I am so angry and disillusioned with the system -

> we did not get any of our choices - so allocated

> Harris Girls and i dont care how fabulous it MAY

> become its not for my daughter right now...I could

> go on and on but will restrain myself

>

> So incredibly stressed and upset right now and

> finding it hard to work...my daughter is upset and

> another thing many parents getting an average

> school having to hide their true feelings to their

> child.....am writing to harriet harman even if its

> just to vent....

[Queenie23]

Does that mean therefore we can't go into other London Boroughs but should only stay in the borough we pay our council tax in????

[Alec John Moore]

It's a pan-London scheme so you can apply for a place in any borough. However, travelling distance to school was one of the key factors for us to consider when we went through this last year. I think the council tax point is misplaced. A school like Kingsdale if/when it becomes an academy will benefit little from Southwark funding since, as I understand it, its funding will come directly from central government and Southwark will by then add little value due to the reduction of support services to schools it will be able to provide.

[citizenED]

Thanks Renata for the explanation of how the system works. Wow. Confusing or what. The idea that you have choice in all of this is a misnomer. You can state a preference - but this is not the same thing at all.

[sillywoman]

clux Wrote:

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> Did anyone get a school they wanted?

Yeah, 1st choice - but we were sensible and stuck to our nearest community school. It suits us so far & we're working on the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' theory.

[dollydaydream]

Yes I got my first choice, was really surprised!! this was partly the reason we moved to try and achieve it, would have been happy with 2nd choice, put 4 choices down in total.

I know it's not easy my eldest did not get their 1st choice got 2nd.

Each year seems to get harder and harder.

I know a few children who did not get any of their choices and was allocated schools.

[BB100]

I got second choice but I'm elated as it's just as good as the 1st choice I put down - and it's not around here!

[Cora]

Interested to know..if you have younger children at a primary school but get offered a secondary school a long way away from that, how does it work?....you can't get both sets to both at the same time?....