Too many muggings - what can we do! (Lounged)

[zeban]

I didn't swear actually, I said twit but with an 'a' instead of an 'i'. Unfortunately the forum thinks this is more offensive than your posts!

'Jewish card'??? That speaks volumes because I don't know what that's supposed to imply. There is no such thing as a Jewish card, but this is very telling of why you are defending Galliano. I suggest you do a bit of reading around the Galliano subject silverfox- how anti-semiticism is on the rise again, and that his outburst is a symptom of something much deeper and darker. Also you know there's a Jewish saying: you can tell what's in the heart of a man by how he behaves when he's drunk, when he's angry and when he has money.

(if anyone is confused there's a Galliano thread in the Drawing Room with silverfox excusing Galliano).

Anyway, back to the subject, the solutions lay with harsher prison sentences IMO, better parenting, better role models. Violence and violence don't mix.

[silverfox]

Thanks Zeban, that's better. Harsher prison sentences, better parenting - Far better than my suggestion.

Please keep away from playing the Jewish card, are you racist? nonsense.

Problem is harsher prison sentences cost money the government isn't prepared to pay for. Better parenting is a difficult concept in broken families where the local gangster is a role model.

PS Galliano is presumed innocent until proven guilty in my view. We still don't know the identity of those who he attacked, or who provoked him. I still maintain, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, that it could have been a set up. Unfortunately much of the world has already made it's mind up.

[zeban]

Please don't tell me what to do. Are you telling me the people in the video that showed Galliano saying I love Hitler. You should be all gassed' is them playing the 'Jewish race card' as you call it!!!! Get a grip silverfox, how you can defend anyone who would say such disgusting things is beyond me. If you're provoked, are you going to throw insults around like that? Do you actually understand the implications of what he's saying? Do you actually understand the Holocaust and what happened?

And Israel has to defend itself because they have nations denying their existence and regularly bombing them. We don't. So I don't know what you're implying about that either. That we should be like them even though our situation is completely different? We're not under attack you know.

Muggings also happen in Israel. My friend lives there has had her bag stolen before, phone stolen before. The police don't do anything more there- in fact probably less- than here. The sight of a few army officers with weapons wouldn't scare off a mugger over there. They can't just randomly use their weapons for anything you know. Some of their laws are more laxed than ours.

[silverfox]

Zeban,

I think you're getting carried away.

why don't we continue our discussion after a good night's sleep?

[zeban]

I think I'll leave you to put up the rest of your thoughts around East Dulwich on your printed A4 sheets. Enjoy the Caps lock

[DJKillaQueen]

Goddness me Silverfox...I think you do yourself no favours with terms like 'Jewish Card'.

[Huguenot]

More knee-jerk Daily Mail rubbish from silverfox.

He hasn't worked out that if you can carry your own gun, then so can the muggers, and the muggers are more likely to shoot first if they think you're carrying. As the US shows us, carrying guns increases crime and murder rates, it doesn't decrease them.

silverfox also doesn't know that if you own a gun, you are more likely to be killed by it than you are to shoot someone else.

It's not even sensible to say that the 'government' won't spend more on policing or prisons. That'll be the public - they elect governments according to their manifesto, and it's well known that high taxes and spending more on prisons is a vote loser.

Criminal motivation is highly complex including cultural and environmental issues, opportunity and limited cost/benefit calculations. Research has proven that few criminals consider the consequences of getting caught, let alone the potential penalty. In other words increasing prison sentences doesn't change criminal behaviour. That kind of logic is just soundbites for idiots.

It's not even banal, it's just stupid.

[zeban]

Well said Huguenot

[MrBen]

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Criminal motivation is highly complex including

> cultural and environmental issues, opportunity and

> limited cost/benefit calculations. Research has

> proven that few criminals consider the

> consequences of getting caught.

Indeed. Translated into comparative terms for East Dulwich:

Opportunity: East Dulwich station on dark winter nights. Regular opportunity to be able to select, target, follow then steal 3-4 times your weekly dole money from one quick hit on a soft fingered office worker who won't fight back hard, and if you catch them at the right time (Fridays after 8pm) are likely to have had a drink and be even less aware.

Cost/Benefit Analysis: 30%+ chance of an iphone or Blackberry (?50-?100, exported abroad), chance of some cash (?0-?50 and if your lucky a laptop (?100-?300). 85% chance that you wont get caught (Southwarks approx 15% crime detection rate for mugging type crimes). If you do get nicked you might get 2 months max but more likely community service or a warning (if first offence and no real violence)

Of course most aren't smart enough to think like this but they'll know the basic score. And looking at it stacked up this way makes me wonder why there are not more.

The two guys who attacked,robbed me and cracked my ribs in ED a few months back have yet to be caught. The police do some great work for which they are rarely thanked. Having seen first hand what they're up against (the current court system, budgets, poor witness detection) it's amazing they manage to apprehend anyone at all.

[Asset]

I got the impression silverfox was being totally tongue in cheek - I could be wrong. Where was the mention of Galliano before Zeban's? Unless it's been deleted.

[Asset]

Although the comment about respecting Israel for 'standing up for itself' is poss taking the tongue in cheek thing a little too far.

[zeban]

No tongue in cheek believe me! you just have to read all of silverfox' posts I'm afraid to see this guy is deadly serious :-/

[silverfox]

;-)

[Huguenot]

:))

[Penguin68]

Cost/Benefit Analysis: 30%+ chance of an iphone or Blackberry (?50-?100, exported abroad), chance of some cash (?0-?50 and if your lucky a laptop (?100-?300).

I am surprised at these figure - in general fences give you about 10% of the 'value' of the object stolen - hence when safes are 'cash-rated' it is assumed that you can keep in them artifacts worth 10 times the cash-rating. A good second hand blackberry must be worth (be sold for) ?275 tops I would guess (based on a quick google) - so you would get under ?30 for it; you would be lucky to get ?50 for a laptop. Those people who export abroad and make the money aren't the people who do the stealing, just as the wealthy drug barons tend not to be the street pushers.

[MrBen]

I was mugged by two glassy eyed goons on crack or meth (as opposed to your less aggressive smackhead). The most likely scenario (as explained to me by Crime Squad) was that they'd melted into the back streets around Melbourne Grove. Then visited one of a number of "drug houses" known to the authorities in the East Dulwich area. And before the usual shock at this revelation in idyllic SE22, there are places like this in every suburb of London. You walk in, hand over the goods, get a quick valuation for a blackberry 970, it's approx 50 quid for one of those, then get the drugs in return. The guy fencing collects or passes on to an exporter who'll send a batch to Africa or China. Most stolen smartphones are now useless on UK networks once their serial number is blacklisted (all UK networks are now required to subscribe to this service). Yes there are some exceptions (some IMEI no's on some handsets can be changed) but it's not easy.

I'm looking at WaveSecure or Gadgetrak for my next handset. If your phone is switched on anywhere they mail you with a googlemap showing the rough location as to where its being used that can improve recovery for the police- sounds good in theory....anyone used these?

[Jeremy]

MrBen - sounds very clever, but I'd be very surprised if the police actually followed it up. I don't think they're interested in recovering stolen goods these days.

[Mick Mac]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> MrBen - sounds very clever, but I'd be very

> surprised if the police actually followed it up. I

> don't think they're interested in recovering

> stolen goods these days.

No, but if the police aren't interested you could go and get it yourself. Bring some big friends.

[JohnL]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Jeremy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > MrBen - sounds very clever, but I'd be very

> > surprised if the police actually followed it up.

> I

> > don't think they're interested in recovering

> > stolen goods these days.

>

> No, but if the police aren't interested you could

> go and get it yourself. Bring some big friends.

Or set-up a retrieval company :)

[binary_star]

I've got MobileMe for my iPhone, and in my head, any theftplays out like so:

http://iphonetheif.blogspot.com/2010/01/iphone-theif-bust.html

In reality, I understand this probably wont happen, sadly.

[DaveR]

"Too many muggings"

Any muggings are too many, and I don't know if the current spate of reports is a result of more muggings or just more reporting. However, as has been observed, this type of crime often has 'spikes' so it is plausible that we are experiencing one. A large proportion of crimes are committed by a small number of prolific offenders and there are any number of reasons why there may be more of them in the neighbourhood than before. Ths might include muggers from other parts attracted by the high number of iPhone toting potential victims, but is equally likely to be, for example, that a prolific local mugger has just been released from his last sentence.

"what can we do?"

Report every incident to the police. In addition to reactive stuff they will gather intelligence on these types of crimes and factor it into their priorities. They also know, for example, if there is a local mugger back on the streets

and whether it might be worth paying them a visit.

It also makes sense to be aware of the risk and, for example, to try and avoid walking down a dark street on your own with an iPhone visible in your hand.

The tracking software is an interesting one. Anything that enables you to give the police more info can only be good, but i wouldn't expect them to race round there and get it back.

[silverfox]

Okay Peeps.

despite what you read from some of the more hysterical posters I am not an unreasonable person.

so, taking some of the criticisms on board I have just spent 10 minutes scanning every post on this thread.

conclusions:

This thread is entitled Too many muggings what can we do?

page 1 of this thread. with the exception of Sleeping Dog who volunteered to patrol and ???s who suggested more prisons nobody posted an answer to the question, despite patting each other on the back

[silverfox]

Sorry, still can't get used to this iPad.

to continue from above. When I suggest arming ourselves it didn't go down well. but nobody has come up with an alternative. the fact is here we're taking about robbery. mugging is a facile term. robbery has existed since the dawn of time.

Huguenot cites some dodgy statistics that I take with a pinch of salt.

Okay, shooting people is wrong. but the question is what do we do?

let's be controversial here in the light of the lack of other recommendations.

all people who have a mortgage can hold arms

all people who have a mortgage can stock tear gas

and the corollary here, to anticipate objections, is anyone found with a gun/tear gas who doesn't have a mortgage is liable to a hefty prison sentence.

why discriminate here?

People with mortgages have a certain maturity and sense of pride and industry. they have to get out of bed to earn money to pay the mortgage. now I know some of you will say that the same applies to many people renting. yes it does. and when you grow up and take on a mortgage the same rights will be given to you.

so, in the light of the paucity of suggestions/recommdations to answer the question posted on this thread my answer, given that some people are queasy of using guns is - let those who have more to lose defend themselves.

what do you think?

[Huguenot]

I think you're being blindingly daft if you imagine that freely distributing weapons amongst mortgage holders won't fill the arsenals of criminals who are far more likely to pull the trigger.

Your solution to reducing muggings is to increase the murder rate a thousand times. My statistics on gun murder rates aren't dodgy, go and look them up.

It's a cretinous idea.

Solutions to crime involve complex and expensive work to rebuild our societies, change our aspirations, create more inclusive aspirational values, build up communities and invest in a more humane environment.

That isn't as easy as lobotomized Daily Mail readers quaking behind barbed wire in gated communities wheedling about how their shotgun makes them powerful.

[DJKillaQueen]

People with mortgages have a certain maturity and sense of pride and industry. they have to get out of bed to earn money to pay the mortgage. now I know some of you will say that the same applies to many people renting. yes it does. and when you grow up and take on a mortgage the same rights will be given to you.

What a completely idiotic thing to say. How do many first time buyers now get those mortagages? With a nice helping hand from mum and dad. To suggest that those working on average and below average salaries that can't afford mortgages which incidently includes Police, Nurses, Paramedics, Firemen etc are somehow immature shows just what an ignorant piece of work you are.

Some people with mortgages have criminal records for example. Most of those without mortgages don't.

Guns are a bad idea, end of. There are many other ways in which people can makes themselves less likely targets for robbery.

And H is right, a good deal of those firearms would end up in the hands of the criminals who in turn will arm themselves anyway with like for like.