northcross rd 12/10/07 4.20pm

[Jeremy]

lilolil - really glad your daughter had the sense to run and get help. Let's hope they are caught, they need to learn that they can't get away with these things. They don't need a clip round the ears, they need to be taken to court as juvenile criminals!

Cassius - would have to disagree with the assertion that mugging is a purely British phenomenon.

[Andyng]

unfortunately because of how messsed up the british law is they'll probably just get a

slap on the wrist

[Cassius]

Cassius - would have to disagree with the assertion that mugging is a purely British phenomenon.

Sorry I meant that keying nice cars is a british phenomenon - not mugging. As others say they will probably get a slap on the wrist. I was mugged at Elephant and Castle several years ago and although the police were great and one of the toerags that did it was caught by a brave passer by who chased him (and got my bag back) in the end because they were under a certain age nothing happened. They might have only been 14 but the impact made on my head as they smashed it into the pavement to make me let my bag go was no different to how it would have been if they were 16.

[PeckhamRose]

Last 5th November we were walking home about 11pm or so from the best views on Dalston Heights to Peckham Rye and these kids asked if they could join us. We said sure fine, as they seemed anxious. They said they were being followed by kids they knew were bullies and had robbed their friends before. We felt so sad for them! They were such nice kids, too. See? Don't want badly behaved kids in the pub but happy to look after and protect them when they need it. I am glad to read how everyone's pulled together on this and now the police have logged it. Can we attract local police officers as members of this forum? (Do we want that?!) We got the journos, are they taking note? I am often round that area then by Harris School so if I see these girls I shall call 999 and hope I wont be cut off for not reporting a crime as it is happening.

[Thequietone]

The age of criminal responsibility is 10.

Why did the police not prosecute a 14 year old for a violent crime. See above.

Police are not social workers but are they there to prosecute crime.

The purpose of the law is not to protect us from evil doers but to protect the evil doers from our excessive revenge.

The police are scared of vigilanteism as it would do them out of their wages, pensions and driving round in free cars.

Paul

[DG]

I hope that if someone calls 999 there will be a swift response... I must admit I can never get through if I need the emergency services, and the response time is very poor!

[lilolil]

Hello again. The police arrived very quickly, in fact seconds after putting the phone down, amazing!!!

[BARA]

Some years ago my daughter who was top primary/early secondary age was playing in Dulwich park with friends when a boy who was around 10 or 11 attacked her with a piece of wood. She and her friends went to another section of the park, the boy returned with older boys and threatened them again, then turned their attention to another group of children -terrorising these much younger group. My daughter and her friends went to move again and the younger boy, who was still holding the piece of fencing hit her across the arm. I was informed of the incident and contacted her friends mum, who confirmed that her kids had reported the same storey. I phoned the Police and 2 officers came to the house and interviewed my daughter, they then went to her friends house and interviewed them. Friends mum rang me furious that I had contacted the police as her kids had known the boy, who was a pupil at their school and had given a name for him. She was worried about the retaliation. Turned out that when other kids and parents heard about the incident, they discovered that this gang of kids 10 -13 years of age had been bag snatching, stealing bikes, knocking over old people and causing general mayhem in the park. The kid was a known trouble maker in his primary school and had been involved in attacks on other children in the playground. The school refused to suspend him, as they were afraid that this would blemish their very good reputation. With great reluctance they gave details of the boys address and the police called to see his parents. Was given a caution and parents warned to provide additional supervision.

There is a general reluctance by many parents to acknowledge that their child can be less than perfect, and when with a group of peers want to show how 'hard' they are by embracing anti social/ criminal behaviour. Having 3 daughters, one got into the wrong crowd and was easily led, gor herself involved in stealing a building society book from a family member and obtained cash - just to get street cred from her mates. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) she taken her younger sister to the BS with her, and she innocently told us that her big sister was using the name of a family member. Having confirmed the theft of the book and discovered the sum of money fraudently taken, I contacted the Police. Having received a formal caution and a general dressing down by the police, who had discovered that her 'friends' were involved in credit card thefts and drug dealing, my daughter was too frightened to continue with her 'life of crime'. She is now a married mum of three and keeps a tight rein on her children and checks out their friends, as she knows the temptations out there. My husband thought I was harsh and cruel to call in the Police, but in hindsight accepted that without this intervention, our daughter could have been caught up with more criminal activities.

Whilst many kids are like my daughter, will not carry on with anti social/criminal behavior once 'caught', others will see police involvement as a badge of honor. I am afraid that unless the communinity in general take more responsibility for their young people, incidences of petty crime will continue to be present. As parents - we all have a duty to ensure that our kids have a strong grounding in moral ethics - that good things in life ( a car/nice clothes etc) require people to work or save. That people are not all sheep following the latest trend in fashion etc, but need to devope their own identity and individuality. Sorry - got a bit carried away here but I strongly believe that many young people, given the right kind of guidance and support can overcome disadvantages and become active citizens.

[lilolil]

If you do see these girls,please ring 999e crime reference no is

3035047/07 thanks

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

Paul, the quietone, I was about to say that if the kids didn't get done it wouldn't have been because of their age. I've seen 13 and 14 year olds in court before.

[Frisco]

"Police are not social workers but are they there to prosecute crime."

That's a rather old fashioned view of the police, and one which doesn't accurately reflect the role of the police today. The police catch criminals, but it's the CPS that prosecute crime. Also, while the police may not be social workers, they do sometimes work with them, and a key role that they are required to undertake is one of crime prevention, which may well include participating in activities to put young people back onto the straight and narrow, or to prevent them becoming involved in crime in the first place. I want an effective community police service, not just a quasi-paramilitary hit squad.

I don't know why the police didn't prosecute on that occasion, but it's possibly because the CPS didn't think they'd stand a very good chance of a successful prosecution. Perhaps it's unfortunate, but these things have to be managed and it's been reported only this week that the courts are being clogged up by cases brought (sometimes needlessly) against teenagers.

[Frisco]

I hope they're caught quickly lilolil, and I'll certainly keep my eyes open when I'm out and about driving in the area.

[zephyr]

It is always worth calling 999 as soon as possible after a mugging. Southwark have a robbery squad who patrol in unmarked cars around the borough. They arrived pretty quickly every time we have needed them

Both my boys have been mugged in the last year. My eldest a couple of times and an attempted robbery. Be under no illusion - mugging=robbery. ne of the robbers was 14 and the othe was 16. One who was involved in the attempted robbery (16) got a 6 month supervision order (an was advised not to mix with the other one). He has taken heed and has moved away and got a job. the other (14 year old) got a 12 month supervision order and was order to pay my son ?50 compensation. That is a lot of money for a 14 year old!

My other son is due at the station this week to do an ID parade.

Always worth reporting but sometimes you need to chase it up.

Please be careful with information given to police as poor information can jeapodise any case

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

My daughter's friend was mugged at Peckham Rye station. She was asked for the time and pulled out her mobile 'phone which was then snatched. Transport police on hand plus CCTV but nothing came of it. Please coach your children to say they don't have a watch and not to reveal a 'phone.

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

Robbery is violence or the threat of violence used to commit a theft, so if there is no violence or threat, it's not robbery.

[zephyr]

ChavWivaLawDegree Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Robbery is violence or the threat of violence used

> to commit a theft, so if there is no violence or

> threat, it's not robbery.

When taking statements the police try their best (from experience) to tease out what happened and whether there was violence or threat of. Unfortunately there was for both my boys hence the robbery charges.

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

Sorry I was just being pedantic

[zephyr]

no probs

[luddite]

i was in northcross road on wednesday the tenth of october i saw three girls who sound like the three of the four you mention above . they were loud and went into grace and favour , then left the owner followed them into willow they left

i did not hear what was said . they then went up ncr and went into lacon road . i believe these girls may be the ones who recently robbed our local postman on his round , if so they are indeed unafraid and very bold .

[lilolil]

IF it is the same girls then they need to be stopped as they are clearly determined to lead a life of crime!!Might be worth a visit to grace and favour to ask what they were up to..........!!!

[lilolil]

It seems that the same girls tried to rob someone else minutes before!!!!

[monopoly69]

I wonder if they're the same girls recently spotted hanging around Goose Green playground after school? My partner took our 13-month-old up to the swings about a fortnight ago (weekday, around 4.30pm) and was horrified to see a couple of girls (he thought they were probably 15/16 years old, one was a chubby black girl) bullying a younger, solitary girl and asking her for money. He intervened and walked her home but the poor kid was absolutely terrified and said that the chubby girl, who seemed to be the one with the bigger mouth, knew which school she went to and had threatened to get a gun and shoot her. Impossible to allay such fears...

[WorriedMum]

lilolil Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It seems that the same girls tried to rob someone

> else minutes before!!!!

Yes. This was my daughter. She was attacked by three girls outside Country Spray florists on Lordship Lane just before this incident on Friday afternoon. The descriptions are: First girl ? dark mixed race/light black skin with dyed curly brownish hair with bobbles at ends with a white head band - about 5?3? tall. She was wearing a white bomber jacket with hood around hair. Second girl ? black skin, black frizzy afro hair all brushed out, very large built girl, about 5?6 ish wearing black jacket with black bottoms. Third girl ? wearing all black. All girls aged around 16.

The girls were friendly initially complimenting her and asking to see her phone. She refused and walked quickly across the road towards the Plough pub to head back home. They followed her, tried to pull out her earrings and then turned nasty on the corner of Plough Lane. The girl in the white bomber jacket tried to drag her down the lane beside the pub pulling her by her arm and her hair. Fortunately a boy of about 15 was passing by and pulled them off of her and told her to run and she ran across the road into Plough DIY. They followed her across and waited outside the kebab shop then walked up towards Dulwich Library. My daughter waited until they had gone and then ran home and we called the police.

If anyone sees them please call 999. Crime Reference No. 3035053/07. Thanks.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Thanks for the update WorriedMum - hope your daughter isn't too upset

I've got the ref # in my phone now

(and they hang out up my neck of the woods do they.... ? hmmmm)

[Blue10]

I know it's dangerous to make comparisons but this sounds similar to my experience the day before. I guess it's in the hands of the Police. I'm glad your daughter is ok though. Good it's so depressing.