Vote YES today - take back your nation.

[Huguenot]

Please, please give your voice a chance...

[Laddy Muck]

Hi nephew,

What about the propect of parties like the BNP getting in? That bothers me.

A worried Auntie Mimi.

[paragon]

Voted Yes with hope but zero expectation

[Huguenot]

The BNP know what's in their own best interests - that's why they're voting NO

The BNP can't obtain the majority support that AV demands from a winner. That's why the BNP don't want it.

If you don't want minority extermist parties getting in, vote YES to AV.

[Frankito]

Should the BNP win majority vote in anything I will be emigrating permanently...

[DJKillaQueen]

I'm voting yes!

[Atticus]

Huguenot, 'we love you YES, Yes, YES!'

[reggie]

Bloody Hell Hugs

 

[Huguenot]

That's excellent reggie :-)

[aquarius moon]

I was planning to vote YES anyway,

but the cat video convinced me I was doing the right thing!

So, it's a YES from me.

(tu)

[misscarmelite]

Vote yes to 'take back your country' ..... what the ****.........did Nick Griffin say that ?

oops misread it it was nation! thats better .....?

[Huguenot]

See note about AV waving goodbye to BNP earlier ;-)

[misscarmelite]

Oh yes......av will get of them ?......what bunkum.........anyone for a intelligent debate ? its scandalous how little time both Labour and the Liberal party have invested on this issue.

Denmark

Danish People's party (DPP)

Key figure: Pia Kjaersgaard (leader, DPP)

The ultra-right DPP swept into parliament as the country's third-largest party following the 2001 elections, taking 12% of the vote and 22 seats under Denmark's partial PR system. Now underpinning a centre-right government coalition, it has drafted tough new asylum policies and cut aid to the developing world

Belgium

Flemish Block (VB)

Key figure: Frank Vanhecke (VB's president)

The far-right Vlaams Blok became the biggest political force in its Flemish stronghold city, Antwerp, in October 2000, taking 20 out of 50 seats on the city council. In the 1999 parliamentary elections it took 9.9% of the vote, translating under the PR system to 15 seats in the lower house. VB is fiercely anti-immigrant, openly anti-semitic and advocates Flemish self-rule.

Austria

Freedom party (FPO)

Key figures: J?rg Haider (FPO's de facto leader and governor of Carinthia),

Susanne Riess-Passer (FPO leader and vice chancellor, Austrian sports minister)

Led from 1986 to 2000 by Nazi sympathiser J?rg Haider, the FPO came second in the 1999 general elections on an anti-immigration and anti-EU ticket, winning 27% of the vote and 52 seats in parliament under the PR system. Soon after the vote, Austria weathered the wrath and sanctions of the EU after the rightwing People's party agreed to form a coalition government with the FPO.

[ratty]

That's the risk you take with democracy. Does not mean the current system is right. Sadly, these parties coming to power (more likely under PR than AV) means that this is the people's will!

[Huguenot]

misscarmelite, first you accuse me of racism (WTF?)

Then you claim to criticise AV by bringing up examples of proportional representation, a completely different system? Moronic.

'Intelligent Debate'???? Are you a complete prat?

The problem is that it's idiots like you talking complete bullshit that have actually undermined democracy.

Vote 'Yes' to AV to give yourself a chance to marginalise idiocy and prejudice.

[Loz]

A humongous YES from me.

[Laddy Muck]

Mr. H, I am sorry, but you are going to think me a complete prat too. I haven't voted yet, because (TBH) I still don't get it. Most stuff I have read says that saying yes will make it easier for the likes of the BNP. But this thread is suggesting otherwise. I don't know what to do. Do you have an idiot's simple (unbiased and impartial) explanation that I could read? :-$ I do not want extremists in.

Thanks.

[StraferJack]

?most stuff you read??

Just what are you reading LaddyMuck? Apart from silverfox?s rantings I haven?t read a single piece suggesting such a thing

[Huguenot]

No worries Auntie Mimi. I'm sorry you've been getting poor information from the right wing media.

In AV to win a seat you have to have been supported by at least 50% of the electorate (a majority).

In FPTP if you have, say, 8 candidates, you could get in by being voted for by as few as 15% of the electorate (you only need to have more votes than any of the other candidates).

The BNP know they're never going to get votes from as much as 50% of the population, but they know they might be able to get 20%.

For this reason, the BNP want FPTP.

If you don't want the BNP, don't vote the way the BNP want you to.

[Laddy Muck]

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> No worries Auntie Mimi. I'm sorry you've been

> getting poor information from the right wing

> media.

LOL! Excuse fisk-like response.

> In AV to win a seat you have to have been

> supported by at least 50% of the electorate (a

> majority).

Got that!

> In FPTP if you have, say, 8 candidates, you could

> get in by being voted for by as few as 15% of the

> electorate (you only need to have more votes than

> any of the other candidates).

And that!

> The BNP know they're never going to get votes from

> as much as 50% of the population, but they know

> they might be able to get 20%.

Okaaaaay(ish)

> For this reason, the BNP want FPTP.

hmmmmm

> If you don't want the BNP, don't vote the way the

> BNP want you to.

Now THAT sounds logical! I think I am just going to have to trust you on this. Thank you, nephew H.

[Laddy Muck]

StraferJack Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Just what are you reading LaddyMuck? Apart from

> silverfox?s rantings I haven?t read a single piece

> suggesting such a thing

Just stuff which came through my letterbox. Also, I'm pretty certain there was a piece on Question Time. But it's quite possible that I may have got the wrong end of the stick.

[Huguenot]

The BNP won their first ever county council seat, in Burnley, with 30% of the vote. See here.

Here is the electoral reform society warning the country that FPTP will let the BNP into Burnley FOUR years earlier.

You can only win with 30% of the vote in FPTP. That's why the BNP want FPTP.

Vote YES for AV and keep out the racists.

[Laddy Muck]

Well we can't have racists! Your work is done Mr. H. Thank you.

[maxxi]

The tory arguments for fptp are to do with self preservation. The only arguments for fptp from labour are (to paraphrase Caroline Flint) to give Clegg a bloody nose.

Not good enough. Opportunistic short-termism.

Whilst I wish it went further and wish both sides had made more of an effort in this debate (as i suspect most people are thinking 'why bother?') I am voting YES as there is simply no alternative vote (see what i did there?) in a true democracy.

[DJKillaQueen]

Yes any desire to smack Nick Clegg by voting no is foolish (and trust me I'd love to have voted no for that reason).

I saw a little piece last night on TV that succinctly explained how the stystem works.

So in the election, counting the first choice on the voting papers, lets say that,

Conservative get 35%, Labour get 30%, Libs get 20%, An Other 15%

So no one candidate has achieved 50%.....so the lowest polling candidate 'An other' is removed, and from the ballot papers of those that voted for 'An Other' as their first choice, the second choice votes are taken and added to the other three parties.

So now we have Conservative 40%, Labour 38%, Lib Dems 22%

So still no-one has passed the 50% mark......so next the Lib Dems as the next lowest polling party are removed and from their Ballot papers the second preference votes are added, or third preference if the second preference was for 'An Other'.

Now we have Consevative 46% Labour 54%

Labour win.

That I think illustrates just how AV works and how in smaller majority holding seats it can make a difference. One argument given for AV is that it would increase the percentage of seats that actually decide an election, because at the moment, so many seats are safe seats with high majorities that the number of seats that actually decide which of two parties get power is woefully small as a percentage. AV would increase that percentage and that seems right to me.