Denmark Hill station entrance shambles

[Jules-and-Boo]

Intersting to know the current footfall, rather than something dated 2.5 years ago.

Is updated information available please, James?

[James Barber]

hi Jules-and-Boo,

Latest 16/17 figures show Denmark Hill increased from 7M entries and exits to 7.12M increases of 6%.

East Dulwich fell from 1.71M to 1.33M -22% due to RMT strike actions and London Bridge disruption.

You can see all the station figures for 16/17 and previous years here - http://orr.gov.uk/statistics/published-stats/station-usage-estimates

[goldilocks]

James - is it possible to ask directly why Denmark Hill cannot revert to Oyster touch pads and have open access? Whilst I understand the fare evasion concerns, you'd hope passenger safety might override this. Also, as people have noted, many destination stations have gates so tickets are required regardless of whether there are automatic barriers at Denmark Hill.

[UVArchitects]

James

Perhaps it would be an idea to move the platforms at Loughborough Junction so that an it can serve both lines therby increasing connectivity and reducing the pressure on, or replacing Denmark hill with a larger more accessible station.

Would happily discuss our ideas with you in person if you would like.

Mick

[James Barber]

Hi UVArchitects,

I'd be interested to hear your ideas. It would however block the plans to reopen Camberwell station served by those two line not serving Loughborough Junction.

[jimlad48]

I think real pressure needs to be applied to this - this station serves 20,000 people a day, yet there is no fire escape. It is a death trap and in the event (god forbid) of a fire or incident has potential to become a Grenfell tower level of fatalities - there is only one way out.

We have to fix this NOW, not in four or five years time. Can we get media, MPS and others to work together to shame the owner into doing the right thing?

[James Barber]

Hi goldilocks,

I've asked if this could be done. You're totally correct TfL and the train operator need to do something ot make this station safer - your suggestion until a second entrance can be built makes lots of sense to me.

One

[Zebedee Tring]

If there is a serious accident at the station because of its unsafe condition for passengers, then this thread could be used in support of any legal action against those responsible (Network Rail or whoever).

[ollieloudon]

Any update on this issue just took 20 mins to get from the train to outside the station. Its a joke

[edcam]

I was there at the same time Ollie. It was horrendous and no staff on duty. When something awful happens there - and it?s only a matter of time until it does, who will take responsibility.

[jimlad48]

This morning was 'interesting' when I was coming down the steps onto platform 3 at 8.39 and one 'gentleman' decided to run up and start kicking the crap out of another 'gentleman' and a full blown fight broke out while a train was pulling into the platform.

Someone braver than myself tried to break it up, I took the view that the risk of being stabbed or caught up in an unpleasant incident was too great.

This station is increasingly a dangerous place to be.

[Bic Basher]

dc Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> alex_b Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Clapham High Street (Overground) doesn't have

> > barriers nor does the rail part of Elephant and

> > Castle (Thameslink)or East Dulwich (Southern) so

> I

> > don't think it can be a requirement from anyone

> > who operates at Denmark Hill.

>

> Sorry, I should have been clearer. I meant any

> station at which TfL services stop - which doesn?t

> apply to ED or E&C. I wasn?t aware/didn?t remember

> that there are no gates at Clapham High Street.

> That?s obviously the exception that proves my

> rule!

Anerley and Penge West, also run by TfL don't have gates, I think Wandsworth Road doesn't have them either, along with Clapham HS.

[JohnL]

Bic Basher Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Anerley and Penge West, also run by TfL don't have

> gates, I think Wandsworth Road doesn't have them

> either, along with Clapham HS.

Peckham Rye didn't have barriers until a few years ago when TFL (or whoever runs it) claimed a lot of people weren't paying.

[Bic Basher]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Bic Basher Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > Anerley and Penge West, also run by TfL don't

> have

> > gates, I think Wandsworth Road doesn't have

> them

> > either, along with Clapham HS.

>

>

> Peckham Rye didn't have barriers until a few years

> ago when TFL (or whoever runs it) claimed a lot of

> people weren't paying.

It's always been Southern in its various guises.

[KidKruger]

Peckham Rye station was no worse a couple of evenings last week when ONE barrier was working and several trains deposited passengers on the various platforms.

Extremely frustrated passengers were banging on the ticket window and office door to highlight the danger (tailback from foyer to platforms). Staff had pulled the shutters down and were hiding in the office.

There were no staff out helping / advising / visibly trying to fix the situation. Everyone had to queue for the single working barrier - else get penalised by Oyster ticketing mechanism.

[Bic Basher]

DH and PR should be under the control of TfL. This would guarantee sufficient staffing of the station until the final train.

Compare Forest Hill, which is run by TfL and the farcical situation at DH and PR and it's plain to see why the current operator isn't suitable.

[alex_b]

KidKruger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Everyone had

> to queue for the single working barrier - else get

> penalised by Oyster ticketing mechanism.

In my experience if I don?t touch out at PR when it?s crowded TfL ?auto-completes? my journey, on the couple of occasions that hasn?t happened I?ve been able to go online and successfully apply for a refund. It?s a pain, but better than waiting in the crush for one gate.

[eastdulwich_dweller]

Hi

TFL don't autocomplete your journey, they charge you the maximum amount they can for that day regardless of what journey you took i.e if it was off peak time travel, only journey to and from zone 2 etc. They charge you effectively the price of a 1 day travel card from zone 1 to 2. That is why the tannoy asks you to touch in and touch out - otherwise there would be no need!?

Also, You can only claim for a refund 3 times a month for an incomplete journey on contactless

[JohnL]

Peckham Rye turnstiles were open this morning (not sure why)

[micromacromonkey]

eastdulwich_dweller Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hi

>

> TFL don't autocomplete your journey, they charge

> you the maximum amount they can for that day

> regardless of what journey you took i.e if it was

> off peak time travel, only journey to and from

> zone 2 etc. They charge you effectively the price

> of a 1 day travel card from zone 1 to 2. That is

> why the tannoy asks you to touch in and touch out

> - otherwise there would be no need!?

>

> Also, You can only claim for a refund 3 times a

> month for an incomplete journey on contactless

https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/oyster/using-oyster/incomplete-journeys

"Automatic completion of incomplete journeys

We recognise that there are times when you can't touch out as you leave a station, during a major sporting or entertainment event, for instance when we leave the gates open to help with congestion. On these occasions we'll attempt to complete your journey automatically.

We also know that people can sometimes forget to touch out. When this happens, we'll also attempt to complete your journey."

[JohnL]

micromacromonkey Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> eastdulwich_dweller Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Hi

> >

> > TFL don't autocomplete your journey, they

> charge

> > you the maximum amount they can for that day

> > regardless of what journey you took i.e if it

> was

> > off peak time travel, only journey to and from

> > zone 2 etc. They charge you effectively the

> price

> > of a 1 day travel card from zone 1 to 2. That

> is

> > why the tannoy asks you to touch in and touch

> out

> > - otherwise there would be no need!?

> >

> > Also, You can only claim for a refund 3 times a

> > month for an incomplete journey on contactless

>

> https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/oyster/using

> -oyster/incomplete-journeys

>

> "Automatic completion of incomplete journeys

>

> We recognise that there are times when you can't

> touch out as you leave a station, during a major

> sporting or entertainment event, for instance when

> we leave the gates open to help with congestion.

> On these occasions we'll attempt to complete your

> journey automatically.

>

> We also know that people can sometimes forget to

> touch out. When this happens, we'll also attempt

> to complete your journey."

Probably they mean if you make the same journey everyday they guess it.

[alex_b]

eastdulwich_dweller Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> TFL don't autocomplete your journey, they charge

> you the maximum amount they can for that day

> regardless of what journey you took i.e if it was

> off peak time travel, only journey to and from

> zone 2 etc. They charge you effectively the price

> of a 1 day travel card from zone 1 to 2. That is

> why the tannoy asks you to touch in and touch out

> - otherwise there would be no need!?

As others have pointed out this is incorrect. They do try to guess your journey when it?s regular (ie PR->Canary Wharf and back most days). It?s not foolproof but seems to work most of the time for me.

> Also, You can only claim for a refund 3 times a

> month for an incomplete journey on contactless

You can only do it online 3 times a month. After that you need to call. However the very few times I?ve called they?ve refunded me without argument.

[James Barber]

GTR has agreed to my request to undertake a H&S assessment of the station entrance/exit.

AS soon as I hear the results I will report back.

[goldilocks]

THanks James - this is a good step. Did they indicate a timescale for this? I think (fairly) that people's expectations on such an assessment would be that it would be completed in a matter of weeks, rather than months or years. Just cautious that GTR may not have the same expectations.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Yes, thanks for requesting this.