Support for our childrens teachers and staff

[maxxi]

*Bob* Wrote:

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> Do they get Viz on submarines?

Yes - to study the Crap Sharks.

[zeban]

I'm with Chippy Minton completely

[new mother]

Clearly, london teachers in tough schools should be paid more than eg country teachers (ditto doctors). They have higher costs and have to deal with thugs all day long. If we have shortages, eg sciences, they should be paid more too. (I realise there are allowances but these are pathetic currently.)

The quid pro quo is that errrr they need to be able to do basic English and arithmetic - it isn't mathematics - per Gove's tests. This might mean grammar and parsing, good grief. Hoot if you learned to parse at school!

['bout now]

Loz Wrote:

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> AHHHH....why is there this notion that "if I can't

> have it, why should they"?

>

> I don't object to them having it. I object to my

> taxes paying for it.

Are you suggesting people in public service don't pay tax? Or is it your tax/you are more important than other people?

Crass.

[Loz]

Chippy Minton Wrote:

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> hmmm....do you also object to your council tax

> paying for street lighting on Frien Road even

> though you don't live there?

Nope. But I would object if I paid for my own street lighting and they were jumping up and down asking for the council to install some more.

[Loz]

'bout now Wrote:

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> Loz Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > AHHHH....why is there this notion that "if I

> can't

> > have it, why should they"?

> >

> > I don't object to them having it. I object to

> my

> > taxes paying for it.

>

>

> Are you suggesting people in public service don't

> pay tax? Or is it your tax/you are more important

> than other people?

Neither, obviously. I'm suggesting that the PS have their pensions supported by tax money and I don't. We are both putting in, but only one of us is taking out, as far as pensions go.

>

> Crass.

So you asked two questions, instantly assumed you knew my answers and then felt it wise to berate me for the answers you made up yourself? That's taking a strawman to a whole new level.

[helena handbasket]

Teacher pensions are paid by tax money because......... wait for it......... their income is supported by tax money. That's how the public sector works.

So where else would the pension funds come from?

[flocker spotter]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> Teachers. Work shorter hours than everyone else.

> Get more holidays than everyone else. Get paid

> ffrom start date until death with their pay going

> down slightly after retirement but increasing

> again with inflation until death. Then spouse

> pension takes over ;) .

>

> Hoot if you agree.;-)

How do you work out that teachers work shorter hours? Most teachers are in school by 7.30. They leave around 6pm and will still have a couple of hours planning and marking to do after that? Teachers typically work about a 60 hour week.

Teaching is also a physically and mentially demanding job. If firemen, soldiers or the police were asked to do front line work until the age of 66, there would be a public out-cry!

Get your facts straight before you make such naive claims.

[womanofdulwich]

why cant teachers have their own private pensions that the emplyer and the employee put into?

[Mick Mac]

"How do you work out that teachers work shorter hours? Most teachers are in school by 7.30. They leave around 6pm and will still have a couple of hours planning and marking to do after that? Teachers typically work about a 60 hour week."

Well if that is true that does surprise me.

[Mick Mac]

It's not that unpleasant! Once you've been in the profession for a few years, the planning becomes second nature, you know exactly what resources you have, you gain ideas from other professionals, you know more about the children's learning, tests and development. So basically, over time you gain even more skills, so whereas an NQT will spend hours and hours planning just one lesson, a teacher who has taught for 2 years can plan the same lesson in around 15-30 minutes, and still have a high quality lesson which is differentiated for different abilities.

Teachers tend to arrive between 7:30am-8:15am. I've found the teachers who come earlier tend to leave earlier. Personally, I like to arrive at 7:45, have a coffee and a chat with staff, then go to set up the classroom. Teachers typically leave from 4pm-5:30pm. Some teachers will do all their marking and planning at school - they don't like taking their work into the family life. Whereas others go at 3:45-4pm and do everything at home.

Personally, I do a mix of both, I try and get most of it done at school, so I can leave at 4:15pm, if I can't, I'll take it home and spend an hour doing it there.

So, arriving at 8am, leaving at 4:30pm is 8.5 hours x 5 days per week = 42.5 hours.

Then add on say 8-10 hours planning/marking per week = 52.5 hours per week.

Like I said, it is different from teacher to teacher, but personally I'd say between 45 to 60 hours per week. However, it's SO worth it! Good luck with the future!

[helena handbasket]

One person. Somewhere. That certainly must sum up the entire profession!

Honestly when people ask me about teaching I say don't do it. You get a steady paycheck and summer is nice, but there is no dignity left to it.

[Mick Mac]

Why no dignity?

[helena handbasket]

Because nobody gives a teacher the benefit of doubt. You are second guessed by everyone, all of the time. The students argue and fight over every possible injustice (homework?). Their parents will hunt you down like an animal to defend yourself (because you had the nerve to assign work and expect it to be done at some point). If you are lucky you might end up as a topic of conversation on a local forum! They will take it to admin, who are terrified of the public so will then make you defend yourself more. You see little of your paycheck, the public hates you (read a comment section in ANY newspaper lately?), your employer hates you, the students are taught by their parents that you are one step above the shit on their shoe, and all because 20 years ago you saw Dead Poets Society and were stupid enough to think that it was actually like that and you might make a difference. More like Dangerous Minds to be honest.

For eight hours a day I'm on crowd control in the class room, don't get lunch, can't make a phone call to check on my son, not even a cup of coffee most days and I'm thrilled to get it on a good day. I can't go to the bathroom without finding someone to cover for me, which can take hours. In the evening I mark English papers that are so bad that it takes hours and hours. I suppose I could cut corners but I still have my professional pride. I'm so mentally and emotionally tired from not getting ten minutes away from the 35 student classes of grunting, moaning lovlies that I struggle to be remotely human with my small son and husband at dinner.

Oh yeah, it's the life baby. Shh don't tell anyone or they'll all be wanting to sign up!

Edited to add: Didn't mean to get into a boring rant, uh pensions yeah they're good. But I'm still quitting.;-)

[sagatelsagouni]

TWO hate-filled women leading the teachers' strike today are left-wing extremists who put their twisted politics ahead of kids' education.

Mam man - writes in today's Sun.

Also any of our Local politicians want to enter this debate ? Doubtful.

[Marmora Man]

'bout now Wrote:

"Are you suggesting people in public service don't pay tax? Or is it your tax/you are more important than other people?"

Public sector workers pay tax - yes. However, they are paid by taxpayers - so the tax paid by the public sector is just "wooden dollars" - it does not increase the total tax take of the country, it merely recycles tax already ppaid by the private sector.

So private sector tax is more important than public sector tax. The only reason for charging tax on public sector salaries is to ensure that headline salaries are comparable between the two sectors. Many years ago servicemen didn't pay tax - they complained that their salaries were low. Government increased their pay to match private sector comparators and then deducted tax - net change - absolutely zilch.

[Marmora Man]

sagatelsagouni Wrote:

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> TWO hate-filled women leading the teachers' strike

> today are left-wing extremists who put their

> twisted politics ahead of kids' education.

>

> Mam man - writes in today's Sun.

>

> Also any of our Local politicians want to enter

> this debate ? Doubtful.

Sag - just to get it straight.

I'm in my 50's

My university was in London

I spent 22 years in the Royal Navy

I have never voted Lib Dem in my life

I am eligible for a public sector pension that will be affected by the changes planned - CPI for RPI etc. I am not whinging but understand and recognise the reason for this change.

I now work in healthcare - and will, one day, collect an NHS pension. Again it will be affected by proposed changes to public sector and again I agree with them.

I have never read VIZ

I don't know what cfra is - let alone drink it - my preferred tipple is malt whisky.

I am one of the few right of centre posters on the Forum

I do not read the Sun or the Mail. I tend to read the Economist, Times, Telegraph, Independent and Guardian to gain balanced view of events.

I believe in small government, an minimum but essential "safety net" welfare system, low taxes and greater personal responsibility for all.

I also prefer clarity in posts - something which is sorely lacking in most of yours.

Finally - you ask elsewhere what benefit a Virgin Call Centre or John Lewis bring. Apart from providing a service which the paying punter finds useful they are staffed by the private sector workers that pay tax to fund the public sector. Without a vibrant and profitable private sector there will be no taxes and no public sector.

[sagatelsagouni]

Diver Dan wrote:

Public sector workers pay tax - yes. However, they are paid by taxpayers - so the tax paid by the public sector is just "wooden dollars" - it does not increase the total tax take of the country, it merely recycles tax already paid by the private sector.

Wooden dollars ? Oh right yes so the kids get educated by dedicated staff , a fundamental little whimsy , but you just want to think about the tax benefit ?

Cor love to be in your Sim City bet it's a right load of fun.

[Mick Mac]

Sorry to hear how tough it has been for you Helena.

[Marmora Man]

Sag - you must start to read and analyse before engaging the "spout" mechanism.

Teachers perform a vitally important role. Agreed. I have never said otherwise - anywhere - ever.

Teachers are in a very valuable pension scheme that is 2/3 funded by the taxpayer.

The scheme is now becoming unsustainable due to increases in longevity.

Some basic, and relatively minor, changes to their pension scheme have been proposed. I was once a public sector employee and my public sector pension will be similarly affected but I support these necessary changes.

[*Bob*]

Are you sure you're the right person to be leading this charge, Sagatelsagouni?

From your opening post "I hope on Thursday that all of us who have children in local Schools show support for all those teachers and staff who dedicate themselves to teaching the next generation... The private sector need to grow some back bone and fight their own battles"

- a spectacular exercise in both asking for support whilst simultaneously alienating all the people you want it from - you're off to a flyer. And it's downhill from there.. a succession of increasingly shrill, unintelligible and garbled messages - half of them aimed at a target you've misjudged completely.

Every time you open your mouth, a car stops honking. I speak as someone with sympathy for the cause.

[georgegarrett]

Well for where i am sitting, the only people spouting seem to be coming from you liberal appologists. How pompous must you be to claim that

Some basic, and relatively minor, changes to their pension scheme have been proposed......

Utterly ridiculous drivel. A teacher age 50 loses 8grand a year, so imagine how much more it costs someone just starting out. How on earth are people like you given access to a keyboard lord only knows. The hutton report is still under consultation , so how provocative is it to level 3% increase now onto those paying into the pension scheme now. Get real please. Who cares really if you were a public sector employee, what tosh. you are clearly losing your argument and now clutching at very flimsy straws. Obviously 8grand to you is nothing, just manicure money.

Funny that the sagatel fellow seems to have been deactivated and on strike day ! Did James Barber call an emergency meeting and get his little submarine commander to complain that their EDF propaganda machine was in meltdown because a few agitators ! What a shame.

And Bob if you disagree and have sypmpathy open your gob and say something. Sagatel is not leading any charge, there are a million others doing that, including civilian staff at the metropolitan police. He/She ,was/is just making a few statements on a backwater forum.

He is definately right about one thing, this liberal pastiche of a coalition is absolutely done for as are all those who sailed in it....eh James?

[mockney piers]

All for nun in paranoid conspiracy alienating everyone shocker.

How many more times do we need to say it, Do not feed the troll!!!

[*Bob*]

Phew.. (s)he's gone..

"Honk"

[Loz]

georgegarrett Wrote:

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> Funny that the sagatel fellow seems to have been

> deactivated and on strike day !

Funny how 'georgegarrett' pops up on the same day (with the same poor writing style).

Funny how the sagatel fellow appeared just after TT3 got the chop.