Petition for the convicted rioters to lose benefits

[snss75]

There is a petition on the HM Government website asking that any persons convicted of criminal acts during the current London riots should have all financial benefits removed. No tax payer should have to contribute to those who have destroyed property, stolen from their community and shown a disregard for the country that provides for them.

Here's the link in case anyone on the forum is interested in signing it: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/7337

[RosieH]

And how are they going to eat with no legal source of income?

[taper]

I think think these people need a lot more taxpayers' cash throwing at them.A long stretch at Her Majesty's Pleasure does not come cheap.

[jaybee82]

Unfortunately, if they have no benefits they have no money for food/living. So in actual fact they will probably become more of a burden on the system through constant petty theft and public order offences.

[RosieH]

Precisely my point jaybee82. Throw them in prison for sure. Remove any legal source of income and watch the crime rate soar.

Idiocy.

[mockney piers]

Can we jail everyone who comes out with some tired, clich?d, simplistic soundbite from the daily mail...pleeease?

[Annette Curtain]

Gosh how amazing ( it took 2 days to think this up in tuscany ? )

Like a weird "Reflex" test...

Tap one knee & both feet fly forwards

3/10 for a bunch of Tory muppets on the back foot.

[Twirly]

Surely they should be given community order sentences and forced to make good the damage they've done? Might even learn a useful skill and become, shock horror, a useful member of society. Punishment should fit the crime.

Withdrawing benefits will, as Rosie and Jaybee point out, just make matters worse.

[Jeremy]

Community service sounds like an excellent idea - as long as the number of hours is up in the thousands.

We can't start preventing child criminals from receiving benefits in the future, the repercussions could be disastrous. But in answer to the question "how are they going to eat with no legal source of income"... one radical idea might be to get something called a "job", which can provide an income to cover essentials such as fried chicken, trainers, and xbox games. In order to prepare for this, they might want to consider occasionally attending something known as a "school".

[RosieH]

Jeremy, would you employ the little bastards?

Chances of their getting a job are slim - whether by dint of their own fecklessness, criminal record, or unemployment. I'm not being bleeding heart about this, I'm being entirely pragmatic.

[Jeremy]

If they manage to get their act together, get an education and some qualifications... yes I'd like to think I would.

Most of them looked very young, and I don't believe in writing individuals off.

[ratty]

Both Hammersmith and Greenwich councils are making noises about removing anyone that was involved in the looting from council tenancies. Great. Then they become my problem!

[RosieH]

Well there's that. But I'm talking in the immediate. Those who are already on benefits, how do they eat until such time as they've improved themselves? And how do you factor in for unemployment levels?

And as a matter of fact, what these kids (& adults) did, while awful, for the most part wasn't murder, rape, paedophilia. But we're ok with people convicted of those crimes getting benefits right?

This petition is idiotic. It's knee-jerk, and I don't mind that so much, I think we're all pretty fucking angry right now, but that's why I'm glad I don't get to pass sentence, because if I did I'd have them all in leg irons breaking rocks.

[LadyDeliah]

Ok, so lets add homelessness and starvation to the list of reasons to run amok! Sensible forward thinking from the Daily Hate crew!

[StraferJack]

"Most of them looked very young, and I don't believe in writing individuals off."

And right there that's the problem - given whatever circumstances have got them to where they are (family? drugs? peers? whatever) are unlikely to change, it takes money and time to turn that around (youth centres, programmes etc) - all in the face of hostility ("you love those punks more than you love law-abiding citizens" etc) from the choir

I'm not making excuses for anyone - a plague on every participant in the riots - but riots like this weeks don't happen all the time for a bunch of reasons. And one of those reasons is that a small band of commited people recognise that many kids are broken 9for whatever reason) and try and grub around for funding to keep them busy. If it stops rioting, it's cheap at twice the price, even if it appears to be "soft"

[Magpie]

Sure there is a lack of opportunity for these children, and this should be made available - but there is also a lack of responsibility; from the kids, from their parents, schools, and authority for failing to "civilise" them. Put simply in my view noone has ever said no to them in any meaningful way, but simply endulged them - this ultimately harms both the child and society. Billions have been pumped into inner cities, to what effect? Its time to review our approach to urban youth, sure make opportunity available, but take a much stricter approach to wrong doing and anti-social behaviour.

[cmck83]

RosieH Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> And how are they going to eat with no legal source

> of income?

Who gives a sh1t. How are the people who lost their businesses and homes going to eat?!

I also think their belongings should be sold at auction to pay for the damage. Like what the Criminal Assets Bureau do to drug barons in Ireland.

[cmck83]

RosieH Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Jeremy, would you employ the little bastards?

>

> Chances of their getting a job are slim - whether

> by dint of their own fecklessness, criminal

> record, or unemployment. I'm not being bleeding

> heart about this, I'm being entirely pragmatic.

In some States in America they force you to take a job. I'm sure something like that could be implemented here. Something like street cleaning or government run factories making goods.

[StraferJack]

yay - several posts outlining the problem with the OP's petition and they come back with "Who gives a sh1t. "

wise....

(emotionally it's most of our gut reaction, I admit that. But you don't have to think for much longer to start to see the flaws) But it seems even 2 seconds more thought is beyond you

[Dee Woffaz]

Can we take away their human rights...? After all this is what this is about. They riot, loot, burn and deprive innocent people of their basic human rights purely because they can. The police have no jurisdiction over what they do, their hands are tied by the plasticuffs of human rights. Having been involved in the judicial system for far too many years and been asked by rapists, paedophiles, murderers and generally the cream of England?s shyte to be given respect, all I could do was shake my head and walk away. Respect is earned, it is a perspective of how you feel about someone or something else not what you demand of others. There is no answer to this, no quick fix. The human rights act, the nanny nation and the, politically correct crazies have caused this. Human rights?????.. Who the hell for eh?

[cmck83]

StraferJack Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> yay - several posts outlining the problem with the

> OP's petition and they come back with "Who gives a

> sh1t. "

>

> wise....

>

> (emotionally it's most of our gut reaction, I

> admit that. But you don't have to think for much

> longer to start to see the flaws) But it seems

> even 2 seconds more thought is beyond you

Read what I just wrote about people who lost their homes and jobs. How are they going to eat?

[StraferJack]

What has one thing got to do with the other? We are trying to prevent a repeat not ensure it happens again

[cmck83]

I don't think these people should get money though. They have ruined their communities. They have to pay something back.

[StraferJack]

Yep - repercussions should be meaningful and strong - that I agree with

I'm siding with the long community sentence thing, as well as the restoration of any groups which have recentlly had their funding cut to deal with people like this. primarily because it's more sucessful AND cheaper than employing more police and just hoping it doesn't happen again

[LadyDeliah]

I agree with SF