Football Focus

[Mick Mac]

Call me picky but I think you mis represented him - he did not maim another player as your original post suggested.

Your most recent post is correct. Your original one is not. A lot of people believe Keane ended Haaland's career, but he did not, so I get annoyed if people continue to state it as if it is fact.

[Keef]

He certainly didn't help though did he?

Keane was a very talented player, that is undeniable. However, in my book, he was not a "great" player, because he was a thug.

I am with Atila on this, you can't put Viera in the same league as Keane when it comes to aggression. Viera was/is a hard player, Keane was a nasty player.

[Atila Reincarnate]

Cheers Keef, for minute I thought I was talking to a brick wall!! Keane went in high on the guys knee, on purpose, and achieved his objective of hurting the player. Mission accomplished!! Give me strength.

[Sandperson]

Viera was just as nasty a piece of work I'm afraid Keef. And football history is littered with players who were great AND thuggish. I think your distinction doesn't hold up. Now, wait for the tirade of abuse.

[mockney piers]

I know exactl where atila is coming from, but in the first place you eiher got it wrong about Haaland, which is a genuine mistake, but refused to acknowledge it. Or you knew to begin with and that's plain dsingenuous, so also understand MM's frustration. It is naughty and helps perpetuate these falsehoods.

It's like the climategate email. By using misfirection it undermines the message that Keane is a thug and a bit of a nasty piece of work, which is true.

[Atila Reincarnate]

I won't descend to your level or be baited by your response, just tell me when Viera went out of his way to maim a player like Keane, and then have the neck to admit to it. Keane was nasty, end of.

[Sandperson]

I still ahven't seen the Lampard pen from yesterday. The Beeb say that Upson won tha ball, is that a fiar assessment? I don't remember ever seeing a penalty having to be taken three times.

[Keef]

Viera was just as nasty a piece of work I'm afraid Keef. And football history is littered with players who were great AND thuggish. I think your distinction doesn't hold up.

Fair enough, but I disagree with you.

There have been players who are were thuggish, some wore the red of Liverpool, but IMO, Keane was something else, just a nasty man, who probably would have been banged up for GBH or worse, had he not been a good footballer.

Now, wait for the tirade of abuse.

Not necessary SP, for someone who claims to "ignore" Atila, you seem to try and wind him up more than anyone else on here. Surely better to just genuinely ignore him if he riles you, and then if he is abusive, you'll have more of a leg to stand on if you want to complain.

Just my opinion of course.

[Sandperson]

I was talking about you (and joking Keef)! I'm not sure who this Atila is of which you speak. Does he post on here?

[Atila Reincarnate]

Spoken like a scholar and a gent Sir Keef.

[Keef]

Changing the subject then...

I still ahven't seen the Lampard pen from yesterday. The Beeb say that Upson won tha ball, is that a fiar assessment? I don't remember ever seeing a penalty having to be taken three times.

I'd agree that Upson won the ball, but fair play to Lampard keeping his nerve 3 times, that can't have been an easy thing to do!

[Sandperson]

Did the pens all go in the same place?

[Mick Mac]

Atila Reincarnate Wrote:

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> I won't descend to your level or be baited by your

> response, just tell me when Viera went out of his

> way to maim a player like Keane, and then have the

> neck to admit to it. Keane was nasty, end of.

Now you have changed your wording - but of course I agree and accept that Keane did intend to hurt Haaland and hurt him badly (but in fact did not end his career).

Its difficult to be that type of ball winning player and not have an element of thuggery about you - it used to be a tough business in the middle of the park (not so much now). Greame Souness or Steve McMahon would be Liverpool equivalents.

Viera was more stylish but I'd much rather have Keane in my team than Viera. Keane's performance for Man United in the 1999 Champions League semi final against Juventus is as good am all round midfield performance as you are ever likely to see. He had everything.

[ratty]

Sandperson Wrote:

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I don't remember ever

> seeing a penalty having to be taken three times.

Yakubu for Pompey Vs Norwich in the Prem in about 2004. Same goalie - ironically - Robert Green!

Yak scored all three too!

Oh - and Roy Keane is a coont! ;)

[Sandperson]

Feed the Yak....

[matthew123]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> Cmon Matt.....say something....

Record as Rangers Manager 2001?2006

Scottish Premier League winners (2): 2002?03, 2004?05

Scottish Cup winners (2): 2002, 2003

Scottish League Cup winners (3): 2002, 2003, 2005

Martin O'Neil

SPL Championship (3) ? 2000/01, 2001/02, 2003/04

Scottish Cup (3) ? 2001, 2004, 2005

Scottish League Cup (1) ? 2000/01

I make that a double and a treble for McCleish versus one double for Martin O'Neil. I quite like McCleish as unlike other ex-Fergie players he seems a genuine good guy.

[mockney piers]

It wasn't a penalty, but then they had a legitimate handball penalty shout turned down earlier, so I'm not going to get upset.

Would love to have seen him sky the last one though, that would have been very funny.

[ratty]

So Pompey, not West Ham - bottom at Xmas. Certain that one of these 2 will go down. Just not sure which yet. We were outstanding against Liverpool and West Ham were superb against Chelsea. Oooh we play each other next week!

[Mick Mac]

matthew123 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> I make that a double and a treble for McCleish

> versus one double for Martin O'Neil. I quite like

> McCleish as unlike other ex-Fergie players he

> seems a genuine good guy.

Matt - Domestic trophies don't really give the answer - noone in Scotland thought Rangers were a better team than Celtic during this period. Celtic were unbeaten at home in 3 years under oneill including in Champions League.

In 2003 for example Celtic beat many good teams incl. Liverpool in their UEFA cup run and lost 3-2 to Mourinhos Porto team in the final - they lost the league and cup to Rangers that year, but were streets ahead of Rangers - just did not have a big enough squad to compete on all fronts. Even McLeish would admit that his team that won the treble was well short of Celtic.

But having seen your statistics I am slightly surprised - I did not think McLeish won as much as he did.

O Neill won the league 3 times in his first 4 years and in the other year reached the uefa cup final allowing rangers to nip in and win the league on goal difference - it should really have been 4 in a row. Don't forget that Celtic were playing the top teams in europe mid week over this period.

Martin O'Neill oversaw a record SEVEN consecutive wins over Rangers home and away. McLeish could not handle him.

No contest.

As for your original statement of McLeish getting to a CL Quarter final - thats incorrect - only Celtic have gotten out of the group stages in recent history (under gordon strachan).

[matthew123]

mockney piers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It wasn't a penalty, but then they had a

> legitimate handball penalty shout turned down

> earlier, so I'm not going to get upset.

>

> Would love to have seen him sky the last one

> though, that would have been very funny.

Don't fret too long I am sure he will oblige at the World Cup >:D<

[Atila Reincarnate]

Yeah they did have a legit penalty turned down earlier, but towards the end of the game if Scott Parker had chosen the right pass when the break was on, the 'appy 'ammers could've won it.

[Atila Reincarnate]

matthew123 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> mockney piers Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > It wasn't a penalty, but then they had a

> > legitimate handball penalty shout turned down

> > earlier, so I'm not going to get upset.

> >

> > Would love to have seen him sky the last one

> > though, that would have been very funny.

>

> Don't fret too long I am sure he will oblige at

> the World Cup >:D<

How true!!

[Mick Mac]

Quoted for Matt

> matthew123 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> >

> > I make that a double and a treble for McCleish

> > versus one double for Martin O'Neil. I quite

> like

> > McCleish as unlike other ex-Fergie players he

> > seems a genuine good guy.

> Matt - Domestic trophies don't really give the

> answer - noone in Scotland thought Rangers were a

> better team than Celtic during this period. Celtic

> were unbeaten at home in 3 years under oneill

> including in Champions League.

> In 2003 for example Celtic beat many good teams

> incl. Liverpool in their UEFA cup run and lost 3-2

> to Mourinhos Porto team in the final - they lost

> the league and cup to Rangers that year, but were

> streets ahead of Rangers - just did not have a big

> enough squad to compete on all fronts. Even

> McLeish would admit that his team that won the

> treble was well short of Celtic.

>

> But having seen your statistics I am slightly

> surprised - I did not think McLeish won as much as

> he did.

>

> O Neill won the league 3 times in his first 4

> years and in the other year reached the uefa cup

> final allowing rangers to nip in and win the

> league on goal difference - it should really have

> been 4 in a row. Don't forget that Celtic were

> playing the top teams in europe mid week over this

> period.

>

> Martin O'Neill oversaw a record SEVEN consecutive

> wins over Rangers home and away. McLeish could not

> handle him.

>

> No contest.

>

> As for your original statement of McLeish getting

> to a CL Quarter final - thats incorrect - only

> Celtic have gotten out of the group stages in

> recent history (under gordon strachan).

[matthew123]

Actually Mick, Rangers reached the last 16 in 2006 going out on away goals rule to Villareal

I'm not an expert on Scottish football, and not even sure that McCleish was in charge at the time, but the best Scottish team I've seen in recent years for actual football played was the Rangers that had Arteta and Barry Ferguson in midfield. Think it was an Old Firm match and remember thinking Arteta is the kind of player who'd do well at Liverpool. Sorry Mick not really a fan of up 'em and at 'em kinda football.

[Mick Mac]

Me neither. Martin O Neills team were a passing team, with lots of width, very direct. Not particularly up and at em.

If you don't like MON's style I guess you would not want him to get the Liverpool job?