Football Focus

[mockney piers]

Some teams just ARE also rans MM.

Nothing wrong with that as long as we are playing to our strengths.

That's the whole joy of being a west ham, that it's always exciting and we lose loads and loads of games that we should have won, ie we played good football dominated possession, were worn down and hit on the break (or more likely a set piece, not being able to defend them is seemingly also in our DNA as I've yet to see a west ham side work it out).

So we always think that one season it'll all just come together and we might actually win something, but weirdly it never seems to quite happen, but the hope is always there and genuine before it's dashed.

Now if only I could think of a song that expressed those sentiments better than that.....oh wait.....

[mockney piers]

If we went all allardycey then there would simply be no point at all in supporting them.

[Jah Lush]

Mac weren't Bolton Wanderers also rans when Allardyce was there? They are playing a much better style of football now and are all the better for it wouldn't you think? It's all about passing and movement. So simple anyone can do it. The long ball style of play = mid-table mediocrity and bored supporters.

[Mick Mac]

As I said:

"and it would certainly not sit well with west ham and their history"

The rest of the point was not West Ham related.

The current possession and passing game is just a current fashion where managers see it as the best way to play. West Ham have it in their history and should stick with it, but not every team can make it work. It will "pass".

When Celtic won the European Cup in 1967 they did so with attacking football the game signified the beginning of the end of the previously successful Catenaccio style adopted by Inter. Catenaccio

Fashions in football coaching come and go. Most teams in England will revert to type within a few years in the same way as Inter reverted to type under Morinho. Its the nature of the english game to attack with speed, width and crosses. Some team will reap the benefit of big Sam. He makes the most of his resources.

[Keef]

I don't understand why you say football goes in cycles. How so? I've not noticed it going in cycles at all, but rather, changing as the years go by.

[Mick Mac]

Jah Lush Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Mac weren't Bolton Wanderers also rans when

> Allardyce was there? They are playing a much

> better style of football now and are all the

> better for it wouldn't you think? It's all about

> passing and movement. So simple anyone can do it.

> The long ball style of play = mid-table mediocrity

> and bored supporters.

Probably true but not everyone can get a manager who can achieve this in the way Owen Coyle has been able to so far. Tony Mowbray is an example of someone with high football ideals and low achievement.

[Jah Lush]

Mick Mac Wrote:

"Some team will reap the benefit of big Sam. He makes the most of his resources."

So tell me Mac - What the feck has Big Sam ever won? SFA that's what.

[SeanMacGabhann]

The 3 promoted teams are all playing pretty good football and reaping the rewards

If Mick is right and it's cyclical (I don't think it is) but if it was to revert to the older style English game, you can also expect a similar collapse in global interest a la Italian football

[Mick Mac]

I just thought I'd stick up for the guy as he makes the most of what he has available and, Newcastle apart, teams seem to do better with him in charge.

Sam

[mockney piers]

I wasn't disputing your point MM, just saying sometimes being an also-ran is ok, non glory hunters are fine with that.

I also believe it's good for the soul.

[Mick Mac]

mockney piers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I wasn't disputing your point MM, just saying

> sometimes being an also-ran is ok, non glory

> hunters are fine with that.

> I also believe it's good for the soul.

I admire West Ham and their committment to stylish passing football - I don't agree with every manager, through peer pressure or otherwise, feeling oblidged to adopt it, especially if it means losing - its a competition after all.

[Mick Mac]

mockney piers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>> So we always think that one season it'll all just

> come together and we might actually win something,

> but weirdly it never seems to quite happen.

Bring back John Lyle, Tony Cottee and Frank MacAvennie. And the guy who used to take the penalties.

[murphy]

Allardyce is not right for West Ham, sure the fans would go bonkers but Wigan, Sheff Utd, Ipswich might be tempted? Nobody like Sam's football but owners like his ability to produce results without spending much money.

Arsenal fans, a similar dilemma to the West Ham one - if the choice was great football under Wenger or less attractive football but a couple of trophies won - would you swap? The question is real by the way not a wind-up!

[SeanMacGabhann]

I?m not blind to Wenger?s weaknesses but I?m as sure as eggs that when he goes, we won?t have a period of less attractive football coupled with trophies. We won?t have a manager of anywhere near his calibre (there aren?t many) and even if we did the constraits at Arsenal re: budget mean a different challenge

What we will do, if we push him, is enter a period of gentle decline and be a mid to 4th spot team - at best

[Jah Lush]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> mockney piers Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> >> So we always think that one season it'll all

> just

> > come together and we might actually win

> something,

> > but weirdly it never seems to quite happen.

>

> Bring back John Lyle, Tony Cottee and Frank

> MacAvennie. And the guy who used to take the

> penalties.

They didn't win anything either.

[mockney piers]

But they came tantalisingly close didn't they.

[Jah Lush]

Yeah and they played plenty of good football along the way. People don't want to be bored watching their team. They're in the entertainment business after all.

[Mick Mac]

There were a lot of happy Arsenal fans in 1989 and 1991, not to mention 1971. Thay did not seem to care if other fans taunted them with boring Arsenal.

[Narnia]

Not sure why the Arse would want to push him. If anything they are closer than they have been for a few years to being on a par with Chelsea and ManU. I would say that is more to do with those going downhill though as much as Arsenal improving. I don't know the average age of Wenger's team but it must be quite young.More often than just about everyone else they play easy on the eye football. What they lack IMO is a bit of experience which I think Wenger should buy in for the benefit of the team progressing more quickly. Shay Given would be a start plus a centre half and a midfielder.

What are Wenger's weaknesses Sean apart from not doing this? What would you say Ferguson's weaknesses are, I'm curious to know.

[SeanMacGabhann]

You would be surprised at how many Arsenal fans are starting to voice that opinion on the various blogs and boards

I would agree with everything you said there tho

[Narnia]

I read today that old Rafa is in serious trouble at Inter and the Italian press are already trying to name the next manager. I guess this will just confirm to those who thought Liverpool should have got rid of him that they were right. Though I think he possibly chose the worst imaginable job to go to. He has no chance of improving on their last season and chances are the players are resting on their laurels. If they don't win the Club World Cup I'm sure he will be gone.

['bout now]

Oh the irony of Allardyce at West Ham, standing with his little mouthpiece in the technical area framed with the words "The Academy of Football"

He may have a record of keeping teams up but so did Dave "Harry" Bassett and I wouldn't have him either.

Prehistoric football and I for one wouldn't pay to watch it and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

[ruffers]

Crisis club City qualify top of their group in the Europa Vase playing the reserves against Juventus.

Solid in the top 4 and looking good.

Just an observation.

[????]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> mockney piers Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> >> So we always think that one season it'll all

> just

> > come together and we might actually win

> something,

> > but weirdly it never seems to quite happen.

>

> Bring back John Lyle, Tony Cottee and Frank

> MacAvennie. And the guy who used to take the

> penalties.

Tonka AKA Ray Stewart

[Jah Lush]

Champions League last 16:

Roma v Shakhtar Donetsk

AC Milan v Tottenham

Valencia v Schalke

Inter Milan v Bayern Munich

Lyon v Real Madrid

Arsenal v Barcelona

Marseille v Manchester United

Copenhagen v Chelsea.

That's a great draw for Spurs. I'm very happy with that. Man Utd and Chelsea should also be very happy with their draws too. Looks like it's bye bye Arsenal, though I'm sure they'll be looking to avenge last year's thrashing.