Political Correctness Gone Mad?

[blinder999]

As I recall it, the term Political Correctness wasn't coined by right wingers - I remember it being used in the eighties as a positive notion re: protecting minorities - but right wingers started using it as an insult very soon afterwards - because demonising minorities was part of their ideology. Cameron and co are still trying to shake off this legacy today, because for most of us, 'political correctness' has in fact made us look at the way we treat other people, and has had a huge positive effect.

I expect in Jamaica, there are people hearing about people in the UK protesting about Buju Banton's homophobic lyrics, shaking their heads and saying 'political correctness gone mad'

[SeanMacGabhann]

blinder

There are people in the UK doing that already - no need to go anywhere else

The term PC now has the same connotaions as the phrase "liberal" in the US - as if BY DEFINITION wanting to do something in anyway poitive is worthy of scorn - ther very misuse of language EdOldie mentions

It's why, if someone is going to say political correctness gone mad, it better be a good example or I tend to get overly snarly about it

Maybe not as snarly as Stewart Lee in the clip at the beginning of this thread, but still...

[blinder999]

Though I support your contempt for the 'political correctness gone mad' brigade, I think you're being disingenuous in denying the distinction Sean - it doesn't help the argument to pretend the concept doesn't exist.

I have to say this retrospective bowdlerisation of Fairytale of New York is the best/worst of example of 'political correctness gone mad' I've heard in a while - and I think it's unproductive for us liberal hand-wringing types to deny that.

[EDOldie]

It was probably coined by the press, but we are talking about 'PCness gone mad'. The very interesting point you raise blinder about other peoples perception of what might be politically correct opens all sorts of questions about respecting and protecting other peoples cultures. Are we so right about this we should be, like the missionaries of old, be converting everyone we can to our way of thinking? Can there be a correct political correctness, and somewhere where political correctness has, in fact, gone mad?

[blinder999]

> There are people in the UK doing that already - no

> need to go anywhere else

not in any mainstream media - including red tops etc. Of course, if you were to trawl a bit, you could find any loathsome opinion you like in this country.

[Brendan]

Censorship is legally enforced. Political correctness is (well at least should be) just a general kind of politeness or respect for others and it should be an individual?s choice.

Problem is the lines blur and unfortunately 90% of this world?s population are such fucking idiots they need to be told what to do by some kind of institutionalised power (normally run exclusively by people who fit firmly into that 90%) so we need to make discriminatory speech illegal instead of us all just realising that it is generally just not a very good idea.

Idiocy begets idiocy.

[Ladygooner]

Just read that Radio 1 has reversed its decision to bleep out the words "faggot" and "slut" from the record. Apparently it had a barrage of complaints from listeners and Kirsty MacColl's mother.

[PeckhamRose]

The ENglish band XTC did a fab song called DEAR GOD. That was banned in Bible belt and made them stars in America. About 1987. I appeared in the video too! Listen, America's full of idiots. It's their education system and appalling moneydriven politicians both sponsored by big business and advertising and the mind virus called Religion sponsored by the very same big business that's causing it.

Everyone go over there, be nice, and spread the word from within that they need not be like this. :) (Runs away from the flames.) My relatives are American and I go there regularly and strangers come up to me in the street and shops upon hearing my accent and even when I refuse their religious cards, they are ACHING to know about what UK thinks about them and ACHIN|G to tell me they did not vote Bush in and the war is wrong. Honest!

[blinder999]

I love XTC!

[SeanMacGabhann]

I believe peckhamRose has an even closer connection with that track, hmmmmm?

[EDOldie]

It's funny that, we were in the states this year and NONE of them voted for Bush. Make you wonder?

[SeanMacGabhann]

you were near a coast then?

[EDOldie]

Very, but not sure I get your continental drift

[downsouth]

You were away from the 'heartlands' of Middle America. They have a more traditional view on life.

[blinder999]

PeckhamRose Wrote:

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> The ENglish band XTC did a fab song called DEAR

> GOD. That was banned in Bible belt and made them

> stars in America. About 1987. I appeared in the

> video too!

Is that you up in the tree?

[EDOldie]

WQhat I meant was everyone we spoke to was in denial. Bit like when John Major won the second time.

[Keef]

God I wish I'd just put the story in the News Today thread. I only put it here because someone used the phrase, didn't think it would stir such a debate.

For my part, I have to admit Sean that it bugs me when you just dismiss anyone who says "political correctness gone mad", it comes over a bit superior, and I'm sure (whether I agree with it or not), I could take a few examples apart and make a good arguement out of them.

Now I know that this phrase is often used by hard right tw@ts, but that is not to say that it doesn't exist, and to deny the existance of something is just to stick your head in the sand. You said at the beginning of this thread that the clip you posted pretty much summed up your views, and this worries me because it was just so labelling of people that do use this phrase as right wing biggots.

Now in this particular case, they cencored the words "you're an old slut on junk" because "slut" is viewed as offensive swear word, and, I guess, because they suggesting drug use. However, the "faggot" bit was cencored specifically to avoid offending gay people, and that I would say is political correctness, and yes, I think in this case it's OTT (or gone mad perhaps).

Whilst cencorship and PC are not one and the same, cencorship is often a tool of PC.

I hate disagreeing with people.

[Brendan]

fuck fuck cunt fucking cunt

and further more

fuck fuck cunt fucking

from which we can conclude

fuck fuck cunt fucking cunt

[SeanMacGabhann]

s;alright Keef. I'm aware of the superior accusation (hence the * tries to remember Tillies advice * bit at the beginning of one of my posts) and blinder has already disagreed with me, along much the same lines as you

And of course there is truth in what you say - but I am taking a hardline stance (even if it does me no favours) just as a reaction

And being contrary as ever, I'm finding my opinion shifting on this whole issue and wishing the BBC had stuck with original decision - I referenced an interview with Thatchell earlier and found a column in the paper today

http://music.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,2229478,00.html

[mockney piers]

I guess most instances are like this one, an individual circumstance responded to in a certain way and either something is changed or it's not.

All generalisations like "its political correctness gone mad" serve are to undermine any debate by implying there's some sort of global/national loony-left conspiracy to stop people saying anything at all.

Yes, any level of 'political correctness' is by definition almost a newspeak in that it attempts to change the way one thinks through curtailment of language.

If that stops the casual use of nigger, paki or the pejorative use of jew and faggot then I don't see it being so bad.

As with anything there are degrees and lines, and every case should be based on its merits.

In the famous hackney banning christmas it was an error of judgement by a junior administrator that was quickly overturned, in this case the BBC has had a ponder and rightly changed its mind (I think, I haven't really followed the story).

Doubtless sometimes things do go too far, I for one thought the Prince Harry - Afrika Korps thing was funny, but hey.

But to lump them all under some umbrella of PC gone mad is in itself newspeak.

Sorry if this opinion is obscured by the muffling effect of the sand ;)

[Brendan]

@#$%& @#$%& @#$%& @#$%& @#$%&

[Brendan]

Don't you think?

[Mark]

shit (just seeing if shit was a blocked word but it's not, brendan faked it)

[Keef]

mockney piers Wrote:

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> All generalisations like "its political correctness gone mad" serve are to undermine any debate by implying there's some sort of global/national loony-left conspiracy to stop people saying anything at all.

What he said.

With regards to that article Sean, when he puts it like that........ I just don't know what to think anymore!!!! :-S

[SeanMacGabhann]

oooh - just because Mockney put my point better (as usual) you agree with him! ;-)

And yeah, the interview made me stop in my tracks and think as well - 'orrible when facts and reality get in the way of opinions isn't it?

Ah well - pint and make up everyone?