Homeopathy remedies

[TE44]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/P

Edit sorry not working

The fascinating mechanisms and implications of

the placebo effect by Luana Colloca

If anyone wants to google

This is an interesting link on placebo and how it is opening up a different way of recognising the healing process.(although long) I haven't read it all myself.I think all meds are partly placebo effect, as in it is much more complicated than just looking at the meds, so many different factors are at play even down to how you are trated by the practitioner, whether that be a conventional or alternatijve.

[ianr]

Plenty of Colloca papers around, from at least 2005. Just search for "pubmed placebo Colloca".

Personally, I'd recommend -- assuming they're the ones I've heard -- three Radio 4 programmes by Geoff Watts and Ben Goldacre. Google "BBC Radio 4 placebo nocebo" for them.

There are btw quite a number of papers reporting placebo effects in animals.

[TE44]

Thanks ianr, will check that out when i can. Researchers have been looking at the effect on people who are being told they are recieving placeb The noceba (adverse reactions) has also being looked at, more recently on chemo drug trial. Its just so hard to decipher these findings, without a medical background.

Sorry edit cause put treatment instead of placebo.

[JoeLeg]

(Edited because me and Sue are never going to agree on this.)

[jenny pink]

Fishbiscuits...................What's so funny about Prince Charles being the patron of Homeopathy..............

[JoeLeg]

Nothing per se, but if you think it lends your creed any kind of credibility then I?ve got a bridge I?d like to sell you...

[fishbiscuits]

jenny pink Wrote:

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> What's so funny about Prince Charles being the patron of Homeopathy

Because believing that homeopathy is effective is already bad enough. But thinking that it's legit just because the Queen's son agrees with you... defies all logic.

[rendelharris]

jenny pink Wrote:

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> ..................What's so funny

> about Prince Charles being the patron of

> Homeopathy..............

Because it's utterly hilarious that to support your argument ("Why is Prince Charles the patron of Homeopathy, if it is a placebo") one of your strongest points is that a man with neither intellectual credibility nor scientific credentials, who has earned no right to have his opinions considered any more seriously than the average bloke down the pub apart from his accident of birth, supports homoeopathy. If that's the best you've got...(still waiting for a link to a peer-reviewed scientific paper that proves homoeopathy works on dogs, by the way).

[TE44]

I've always seen homeopathy and vaccines as supposedly working on same basis, like cures like, in homeopathy it is to stimulate you natural immunity, as it was with the first vaccines, the only difference i can see is the quantity. As scientist are now realising triggers for naturally healing eg placebo, I can't see why if a thought or belief can trigger a healing process why can't an essence.

[fishbiscuits]

TE44 Wrote:

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> the only difference i can see is the quantity.

I'm not sure you really appreciate what homeopathic preparations are. The quantity of the (supposedly) active substance is reduced to literally zero. The theory is that the substance's "energy" is transferred to the dilutant.

The principle is totally different to early vaccines using actual live virus.

[rendelharris]

TE44 Wrote:

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> I've always seen homeopathy and vaccines as

> supposedly working on same basis, like cures like,

> in homeopathy it is to stimulate you natural

> immunity, as it was with the first vaccines, the

> only difference i can see is the quantity.

Then you have no idea how vaccines work. Vaccines aren't a cure, for a start. Homeopathy is not a vaccine. Vaccines offer a small, fixed amount of a pathogen (antigen) to the immune system, which teaches the immune system how to react to larger quantities of the same pathogen when it turns up. Homeopathic preparations are pure water and stimulate no effect in the immune system. If the best you can claim for homeopathy is that it has a placebo effect, you're tacitly admitting it's balls. To refute this, please provide a link to one single peer-reviewed scientific paper proving that homeopathy works (you can't, because there are none).

[TE44]

As in like cures like,is what I said.

[rendelharris]

TE44 Wrote:

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> As in like cures like,is what I said.

There is no "like" in a homeopathic preparation, it's so dilute that no trace of the original element is present, it's pure water. For homeopathy to have any scientific effect the water atoms would have to somehow be "imprinted" with the trace element, which is scientifically impossible.

[TE44]

Fishfingers I know a little of what homeopathy

is although I know a little more about herbs so that is my preference. I have used homeopathic remedys which have been given to me. I actually believe it is important and also effects healing,

How something is given to you. As i have already said there is more to healing than the meds whether conventional or alt.

[jenny pink]

rendelharris...

How patronizing,you are....YOU are the one in doubt,so why Don't YOU invesatigate with pet owners,who use Homeopathy for their pets...I 'KNOW' it does work,for humans too.....one can lead a horse to the water...springs to mind

[rendelharris]

jenny pink Wrote:

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> rendelharris...

> How patronizing,you are....YOU are the one in

> doubt,so why Don't YOU invesatigate with pet

> owners,who use Homeopathy for their pets...I

> 'KNOW' it does work,for humans too.....one can

> lead a horse to the water...springs to mind

It is a highly relishable irony to be accused of being patronising by someone who thinks writing "I know" in capital letters constitutes some form of evidence. Behind your somewhat incoherent ramble lies the obvious fact that you can't actually present any proper evidence. Do stop this silly "YOU investigate" thing, it's so transparent; as I have already pointed out to you, I could search for a lifetime and not find a single peer-reviewed scientific paper or double blind trial showing that homeopathy works in humans, let alone animals, as none exists.

[JoeLeg]

jenny pink Wrote:

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> rendelharris...

> How patronizing,you are....

Hello pot? Hello? This is Kettle here?

YOU are the one in

> doubt,so why Don't YOU invesatigate with pet

> owners,who use Homeopathy for their pets..

Doubt and well-informed scepticism are not the same thing.

.I

> 'KNOW' it does work,for humans too...

No you don?t. You believe it does, which is not the same thing.

..one can

> lead a horse to the water...springs to mind

Much the same can be said of you, with your wholesale dismissal of modern medical practice. Have you ever needed the assistance of A+E or an operation or anything?

[Robert Poste's Child]

Not sure if this counts as homeopathy but everyone I know who uses Rescue Remedy finds it works better if you put a few drops in water than under the tongue. Why is that?

[TE44]

RPC, Haven't you asked them? I would assume people with experience may share there individual

reasons although often, as above, there is no genuine enquiry, more a refusal to believe someone elses choice and experience stands for anything, as it is different from the enquirer,

[Robert Poste's Child]

No point asking them unless they're biochemists.

[TE44]

Sorry I thought it was a genuine question, if so then maybe try business section,

[Robert Poste's Child]

I don't understand your comments, TE44. I thought this thread was about homeopathy: my question was why an even more diluted version of something that's already homeopathic seems to work better than the original, which people sometimes take under the tongue.

[TE44]

RPC Sorry I may have picked you up wrong, homeopathyz dilution process is part of the controversy. Dilution makes it more potent, I guess many people don't know the process of there meds on the level science looks at it, but they will know if it helps.

[TE44]

RCP Hear is a scientific paper looking at dilution and basis for homeopathy.

https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/scientific-basis-of-homeopathic-medicine-a-hypothesis-to-establish-thescientific-basis-of-homeopathy.php?aid=66112

Hope it works, my phone is playing up.

[kristymac1]

products take sublingually absorb into the blood stream much faster than those take orally and more of the product is absorbed into the system - many medicines are delivered sublingually because it is a faster more efficient way of taking it in. It doesn't make sense that a diluted product taken orally would have more efficacy than the same (undiluted) product intended to be taken sublingually.

Robert Poste's Child Wrote:

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> Not sure if this counts as homeopathy but everyone

> I know who uses Rescue Remedy finds it works

> better if you put a few drops in water than under

> the tongue. Why is that?