Homeopathy remedies

[Robert Poste's Child]

And yet... I use RR myself and I find it works better in water. Maybe the action of sipping water is calming as well.

[TE44]

Could well be Rpc many things come into healing and often things are ignored or ridiculed if it does not fit into the system of measuring and seeing how science evaluates.

[Sue]

Robert Poste's Child Wrote:

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> And yet... I use RR myself and I find it works

> better in water. Maybe the action of sipping water

> is calming as well.

But in many (emergency) cases where RR is used, you wouldn't have a glass of water handy.

Not in my experience, anyway.

ETA: It isn't like other Bach flower remedies where you may be using them over a relatively long period of time, and probably combined with others, when yes you would dilute them in water.

[TE44]

I've just checked the spray. It is a solution in grape alcohol, whether this is done this way as a preservative, I don't know, interesting.

[TE44]

Yes it is as a preservative, when i use alcohol to make tinctures, although I recognise the preservative properties, I use it more for the potency. It puts a different angle on potency when looking at dilution medicine.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I can sell you a bottle of water which will cure magical thinking, but it'll cost you ?5.

[rendelharris]

TE44 Wrote:

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> Could well be Rpc many things come into healing

> and often things are ignored or ridiculed if it

> does not fit into the system of measuring and

> seeing how science evaluates.

"Bach derived his solutions intuitively and based on his perceived psychic connections to the plants, rather than using research based on scientific methods. If Bach felt a negative emotion, he would hold his hand over different plants, and if one alleviated the emotion, he would ascribe the power to heal that emotional problem to that plant. He imagined that early-morning sunlight passing through dew-drops on flower petals transferred the healing power of the flower onto the water, so he would collect the dew drops from the plants and preserve the dew with an equal amount of brandy to produce a mother tincture which would be further diluted before use."

I genuinely do not see how anyone can read that and not ignore/ridicule it.

[TE44]

Hey rrr, I'll give you a brew for free that'll help you work out anything you don't understand, taking money out the equation, ha ha.

[Sue]

rendelharris Wrote:

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>

> I genuinely do not see how anyone can read that

> and not ignore/ridicule it.

That is presumably because you are not sensitive to subtle energies (or possibly you are, but would be horrified to find that out :)) ).

As I said previously, like a colour blind person ridiculing people who claim to be able to see colour.

[rendelharris]

Sue Wrote:

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> rendelharris Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> >

> > I genuinely do not see how anyone can read that

> > and not ignore/ridicule it.

>

>

> That is presumably because you are not sensitive

> to subtle energies (or possibly you are, but would

> be horrified to find that out :)) ).

>

> As I said previously, like a colour blind person

> ridiculing people who claim to be able to see

> colour.

Just to make it clear Sue, you believe that a person can have negative emotions alleviated psychically by holding their hand over a particular plant, and that when the sun shines on a dewdrop on a flower the "healing energy" of the flower is transferred into the water?

Your analogy is a footling one, we know that people can see colour and we know how they see it too, thanks to science - we could scientifically prove to a colourblind person that colour exists. You can't just make nonsense up and then say "Oh you don't understand because you're too blind to see" - well you can, but it's not a good basis for rational argument.

[edcam]

I don't know if there are any scientifically proven studies which show that Rescue Remedy works, I do know that it works for me. I fully admit that this could be a placebo effect but if it works then I'll use it.

[rendelharris]

There aren't - every study has shown its effects are no more significant for trial groups than placebo groups. But if it works for you, great - I wouldn't want anyone to stop doing something that makes them feel better. My objection to homeopathy is that practitioners make absurdly overblown and totally unfounded claims that have led to people delaying proper medical treatment, to their detriment, and, in extreme cases, their death.

[TE44]

RH Has your mood ever been affected by music, have you ever say had a headache,pain etc when you have heard, smelled or tasted something and it changed how you felt. Vbrational heaine is not

A new form of healing.

[Sue]

rendelharris Wrote:

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>

>

> Just to make it clear Sue, you believe that a

> person can have negative emotions alleviated

> psychically by holding their hand over a

> particular plant, and that when the sun shines on

> a dewdrop on a flower the "healing energy" of the

> flower is transferred into the water?

Yes.

And btw I have a scientific background, so please don't treat me as if I am completely stupid.

And as regards Rescue Remedy, the first time I used it somebody else gave it to me and I had absolutely no idea what it was at the time, but it worked immediately.

[TE44]

rendelharris Wrote:

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> There aren't - every study has shown its effects

> are no more significant for trial groups than

> placebo groups. But if it works for you, great -

> I wouldn't want anyone to stop doing something

> that makes them feel better. My objection to

> homeopathy is that practitioners make absurdly

> overblown and totally unfounded claims that have

> led to people delaying proper medical treatment,

> to their detriment, and, in extreme cases, their

> death.

Rh everything you say above has happened with conventional treatment, there have b?en overblown

claims about drugs that have killed people, false advertising is rife, a sense of detachment from patients who question meds, or often who wish to have some responsibility with there health. I can go on but I am more interested to hear if you have the same

concerns with conventional drugs, If you were advocating for a system that does not do what you are accusing homeopathy of, it would be easier to understand.

[rendelharris]

TE44 Wrote:

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> RH Has your mood ever been affected by music, have

> you ever say had a headache,pain etc when you have

> heard, smelled or tasted something and it changed

> how you felt. Vbrational heaine is not

> A new form of healing.

Hearing, smelling or tasting things has effects on the neural pathways and/or other parts of the anatomy in ways that are scientifically understood and proven. That is not the same as claiming that an emotion can be alleviated by some mystical vibrations that a flower supposedly gives off that cannot be detected in any way. However, let's say for the sake of argument flowers do give off some mystical energy vibration even though it can't be detected, you then go along with the fact that this "energy" can be somehow imprinted on water molecules (sorry, it has to be specifically dewdrops) by having sunlight (sorry, early-morning sunlight) passed through it? Would you like to buy some magic beans?

[rendelharris]

TE44 Wrote:

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> Rh everything you say above has happened with

> conventional treatment, there have b?en overblown

> claims about drugs that have killed people, false

> advertising is rife, a sense of detachment from

> patients who question meds, or often who wish to

> have some responsibility with there health. I can

> go on but I am more interested to hear if you have

> the same

> concerns with conventional drugs, If you were

> advocating for a system that does not do what you

> are accusing homeopathy of, it would be easier to

> understand.

I've already said to you elsewhere that yes, real medicine has f-ed up numerous times, big pharma companies have been responsible for false claims, greed and all the rest of it. It has, however, also saved billions of lives (I for one would have died, definitely, three times without lifesaving drug treatment). Nevertheless, the fact that real medicine has sometimes been in error does not actually lend any credence to the idea that water molecules can somehow magically become imprinted with trace substances and that these have healing powers.

[rendelharris]

Sue Wrote:

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> rendelharris Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> >

> >

> > Just to make it clear Sue, you believe that a

> > person can have negative emotions alleviated

> > psychically by holding their hand over a

> > particular plant, and that when the sun shines

> on

> > a dewdrop on a flower the "healing energy" of

> the

> > flower is transferred into the water?

>

>

> Yes.

>

> And btw I have a scientific background, so please

> don't treat me as if I am completely stupid.

I don't in the slightest believe you are completely stupid Sue, and I haven't treated you as such. I've asked you a question and you've answered it. I do believe your answer shows you are staggeringly gullible, but there we go. Healing energies being transferred from flowers to dewdrops by the power of early-morning sunlight, forsooth!

By the way you'd be on firmer ground objecting to being treated as stupid (which you weren't) if you hadn't described me as "like a colourblind person ridiculing people who can see colour" and that saying I don't believe in this nonsense "because you are not sensitive to subtle energies." Do unto others, and so forth.

"And as regards Rescue Remedy, the first time I used it somebody else gave it to me and I had absolutely no idea what it was at the time, but it worked immediately." No doubt. I presume they gave it to you saying it would help, you believed it would, and it did. The very definition of the placebo effect.

Anyway, I'm leaving this argument now as it's just going round and round and you're clearly getting all in a tizzy about your non-evidence-based beliefs being questioned.

Do get back to me if you ever find a peer-reviewed scientific paper or double-blind trial that proves any of your claims, won't you?

[TE44]

We have very diffrent views on healing, I cannot remember anyone ever saying on this forum there is not a place for conventional medicine. Choices are being taken away even though science has learned so much about homeopathy, the way it treats people holistically, although this was an old way it didn't begin with homeopathy although the biopsychosocial method has looked a lot at homeopathy.

EASAC who put in the report on homepathy wee accused of cherry picking trials they used for this report. I do not have time to go into this, and not sure if I have the energy but its worthwhile having a look if your interested.

[Sue]

rendelharris Wrote:

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I presume they

> gave it to you saying it would help, you believed

> it would, and it did. The very definition of the

> placebo effect.

No, you presume completely wrong.

They didn't say anything. I didn't have time to "believe" anything. I didn't even know them.

They put a drop on my tongue when I was in quite a bad state, which they heard from the next room and came into mine.

It had an immediate effect. They told me what it was later. I had never even heard of it before.

you're clearly getting

> all in a tizzy about your non-evidence-based

> beliefs being questioned.

I don't have "beliefs". I have personal experience.

> Do get back to me if you ever find a peer-reviewed

> scientific paper or double-blind trial that proves

> any of your claims, won't you?

Science is making progress all the time, for example in particle physics, but it can't yet explain everything (or do you think it can?)

The universe is a lot weirder than anybody could have imagined. If you think it isn't, maybe you should read up on some physics.

Perhaps you could explain to me:

1) Which of my claims you would like to be proved

2) How a scientist would go about setting up a double-blind trial or trials to prove them (and how they would find sufficient subjects to do so)

3) Why the lack of a "peer reviewed scientific paper" about a particular issue should affect its credibility?

[rendelharris]

I refer you to the penultimate line of my last post, Sue. All the best.

[Robert Poste's Child]

I'm not really sure if beliefs come into it for me. I tried homeopathy for some long-standing issues (I've tried a lot of things) and one or two things seemed to help but then didn't, and some never worked at all, but RR does. When I'm feeling stressed I just add a few drops to a water bottle.

In a similar way, I first tried craniosacral therapy in desperation when my shoulder and neck had completely frozen as the result of overcompensating after an accident. Literally couldn't move without pain. After an hour of someone holding my feet and breathing heavily, then moving my arms, legs and head very slightly I could put my head on my shoulder. Amazing. (Never as good again since though.)

[TE44]

Rpc I've found herbs that I know to work for long term health problems sometimes are not enough

for me. I may then look at where I am, recent

things that i've struggled with,as more often my symptoms are connected with what is going on emotionally, regardless of a diagnosis that only sees a minute glimpse of illness. From a system that refuses to recognise that you know your own body. I beliee and know things are possible outside of the peer reviewed, outside of tight bounderies that keep healing out.

[Sue]

rendelharris Wrote:

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> I refer you to the penultimate line of my last

> post, Sue. All the best.

Oh dear, can't you answer my perfectly reasonable questions, then?

:)) :)) :))

[JoeLeg]

Don?t be idiotic Sue.

You know full well Rendell is capable of going back and forth on something until the sun comes up. The fact you and someone else disagree on something doesn?t automatically mean they don?t have an answer for you.