Animal abuse on Peckham Rye! (dogs tied up outside cafe) Lounged

[boosboss]

trinity Wrote:

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> Its not a theory - its my opinion. If dogs can be

> controlled all the time then there is no problem.

> Guide dogs I don't have a problem with - they are

> well trained and controlled and are with their

> owners inside for a purpose. Perhaps your dog is

> fine but perhaps the next dog is smelly. Perhaps

> the next is wet and decides to have a good shake

> inside. Perhaps the next decides it likes the look

> of my childs meal. Perhaps it would be best to

> leave dogs outside for short time while the humans

> have a cuppa.

Thanks for clearing that up Trinity. It's not a hygiene issue, but perhaps a personal comfort one then and you are fully entitled to have and voice that opinion. Perhaps it was your previous posting tarring all dogs with the same brush that got my goat. :)) However, with the dog theft issue perhaps leaving the dogs outside is not best.

[luke dogwalker]

I don't see why I can't take my dogs inside. They are very well behaved. I don't see why we should have to sit out in the cold and I've said it before, but I won't tie my dogs outside anywhere. If we were in France or Belgium or the Hague etc, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. I went to a cafe in France on the way (driving) to Nice, and didn't even realise that their were dogs in the cafe. They get used to it and it becomes a way of life to them. A friend of mine used to live in the Hague. When visiting him, his dog came EVERYWHERE with us. It was never an issue.

I've seen the dogs tied up in the rain outside the cafe, I too think its cruel. Fur coat or not, they still feel the cold, especially if they are wet. Its not on.

[Emily]

Hilarious that people think the answer to the dog being outside is that the owner also stays outside...which would make the dog drier and warmer in what way, exactly? Dogs aren't people. They jump into freezing lakes in January. They roll in shit. It's NORMAL for them to be outside. For heaven's sake, next people will be saying they shouldn't be taken for walks in winter.

[luke dogwalker]

dulwichbloke Wrote:

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> I have been a member of the RSPCA for years (I

> don't speak for them - I just support them as I

> abhor any sort of cruelty to animals) but I have

> to say that I don't think leaving your dog outside

> for however long it takes to have a coffee and a

> cake constitutes cruelty - even if it is raining

> and/or cold. Any dog I have ever had has loved

> diving into freezing cold rivers and running about

> wet in the winter months! They don't feel the

> cold like we do. I think its a bit daft to

> suggest that leaving a dog outside for a short

> time in the rain is cruel. The fact that the dog

> was even out having a walk in the first place is a

> good sign that it gets proper attention!

>

> Obviously the risk of theft is another matter

> entirely, but that wasn't what the original

> observation was directed towards.

>

> Dogs are dogs - they love the outdoors, getting

> wet and sticking their noses up peoples arses. I

> can't imagine they were suffering because of 2 out

> of 3 of some of their favourite things.

It all depends on the breed of the dog. Your Labrador, Springer Spaniel etc may be quite happy to jump in water, roll in s**t etc, but there are certain breeds that do not tolerate the cold and do feel the cold. Especially Toy breeds. Long or short coated.

[luke dogwalker]

Emily Wrote:

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> Hilarious that people think the answer to the dog

> being outside is that the owner also stays

> outside...which would make the dog drier and

> warmer in what way, exactly? Dogs aren't people.

> They jump into freezing lakes in January. They

> roll in shit. It's NORMAL for them to be outside.

> For heaven's sake, next people will be saying they

> shouldn't be taken for walks in winter.

My dogs walk in all weather. They get wet, I take them home where its warm, and dry them off. To leave a wet shivering dog tied up in the cold is not good. They cannot run around to keep warmer. I will only use the cafe in the warm weather when I can get served through the serving hatch and sit with my dogs. Its "normal" for them to be outside on a walk, but not to be left outside. In my opinion.

[boosboss]

Emily Wrote:

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> Hilarious that people think the answer to the dog

> being outside is that the owner also stays

> outside...which would make the dog drier and

> warmer in what way, exactly? Dogs aren't people.

> They jump into freezing lakes in January. They

> roll in shit. It's NORMAL for them to be outside.

> For heaven's sake, next people will be saying they

> shouldn't be taken for walks in winter.

I think the only person saying the owners should stay outside with thier dogs was me and that was a security issue, nothing to do with keeping a dog warm. As for dogs jumping into freezing lakes, not all dogs do and then probably wouldn't then just sit still, but would run a lot of the excess water in the coat off. They roll in shit - Yes, but what's the relevance? As for NORMAL, with the type of breeding that has taken place a lot of breeds would not, due to thier coats be able to tolerate being left outside. And your last point, some people wouldn't take thier dogs out in winter without additional protection against the cold and rain, such as dog coats.:))

[TillieTrotter]

How terribly English is this thread. Bloody kids ruining my peaceful pint, bloody kids and mums taking up all the room in all the eateries....blah blah. But jump up and down when a DOG gets left outside a cafe for half an hour. Priceless!

[AllforNun]

Mmmm All go back inside for coffee now !

There are Environmental health laws regarding dogs in places where food is served and prepared, only guide dogs are exempt.

Duwlich park are building a small heated enclosure near their cafe, it will have a sloped grass roof have spaces for water bowls (with it's own water supply) and some built in toughened lCD screens, showing imagery created for dogs to calm and stimulate.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

For all those soft-hearted dog owners:

http://www.berroco.com/images/exclusives/am/buster/buster_lg.jpg

instructions to make your own here:

http://www.berroco.com/exclusives/buster/buster.html

[Keef]

TillieTrotter Wrote:

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> How terribly English is this thread. Bloody kids ruining my peaceful pint, bloody kids and mums taking up all the room in all the eateries....blah blah. But jump up and down when a DOG gets left outside a cafe for half an hour. Priceless!

To be fair Tillie, no one has suggested leaving a child out in the cold, and a dog is far less annoying than a child in a pub.

[boosboss]

AllforNun Wrote:

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> Mmmm All go back inside for coffee now !

>

> There are Environmental health laws regarding dogs

> in places where food is served and prepared, only

> guide dogs are exempt.

Are there? Can you quote them? Dogs are not allowed where food is prepared but are allowed where it's served, ie cafes, pubs, restaurants etc. Guide Dogs are not exempt. Allowing guide dogs onto premises and barring other dogs is discretionary (although may have some form of inclusion in the Disabilities Act?)

[boosboss]

TillieTrotter Wrote:

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> How terribly English is this thread. Bloody kids

> ruining my peaceful pint, bloody kids and mums

> taking up all the room in all the eateries....blah

> blah. But jump up and down when a DOG gets left

> outside a cafe for half an hour. Priceless!

LOL How ironic that when in threads regarding children, dogs are mentioned. There seems to be a general concensus on here that the person comparing the two is being ridiculous. Perhaps comparing the two is terribly English LOL :)

[Brendan]

Overly excitable things that like playing in mud and are best kept on a lead.

[boosboss]

Brendan Wrote:

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> Overly excitable things that like playing in mud

> and are best kept on a lead.

Rugby Players?

[Brendan]

What? Tied up outside the cafe on Peckham Rye?

[Michael Palaeologus]

Surely it depends on the dog?

At home we always had Englsih Springer Spaniels, they hated being in the warmth and much preferred cold, muddy and wild conditions; but then they were working dogs and seemd impervious to all hardship - I remember one of them happily licking the vet as he stiched up a two inch wound on his chest after he ran through a barbed wire fence. They would stand around wet throught, freezing cold, tails wagging and happy as larry.

If we went into a cafe with the Spaniels we would have to leave them outside because they hated the warmth and would pester to go outside. What distressed them was being left alone for too long, so we didnt.

Amongst the melee of Spaniels was a Chihauhau called Pepe who was less than half the size of the Spaniels, twice the age and looked like a hairy cream pie. Nontheless he ruled the pack and hated any form of wetness or cold and would spend his days virually sitting in the fire.

You cant generalise.

[TillieTrotter]

I realise that Keef, think you got the wrong end of the stick.....fetch boy>:D

[luke dogwalker]

Michael Palaeologus Wrote:

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> Surely it depends on the dog?

>

> At home we always had Englsih Springer Spaniels,

> they hated being in the warmth and much preferred

> cold, muddy and wild conditions; but then they

> were working dogs and seemd impervious to all

> hardship - I remember one of them happily licking

> the vet as he stiched up a two inch wound on his

> chest after he ran through a barbed wire fence.

> They would stand around wet throught, freezing

> cold, tails wagging and happy as larry.

>

> If we went into a cafe with the Spaniels we would

> have to leave them outside because they hated the

> warmth and would pester to go outside. What

> distressed them was being left alone for too long,

> so we didnt.

>

> Amongst the melee of Spaniels was a Chihauhau

> called Pepe who was less than half the size of the

> Spaniels, twice the age and looked like a hairy

> cream pie. Nontheless he ruled the pack and hated

> any form of wetness or cold and would spend his

> days virually sitting in the fire.

>

> You cant generalise.

Totally agree:)

[Domitianus]

boosboss Wrote:

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> Word of warning for those leaving dogs teathered

> outside anywhere in public! Check out Doglost. It

> takes seconds for a dog to be stolen, even when

> it's apparently in view. The cafe has an external

> serving hatch, so you really don't need to go

> inside and as the cafe has eaves, you too can sit

> under them to shelter from inclement weather.

> If in future you do see a dog in distress, please

> don't just walk past. Say something, even if it's

> just to complain to the cafe owner!

> The cafe does sell dog treats, rodeo's 50p each

> :)

>

>

> lol. beaten to it with Doglost lol

I agree with the warning about dogs being stolen. Only a few weeks ago someone tried to steal my two rottweilers. We know this to be the case because we returned to where they had been tethered to find them chewing happily on a severed arm. The police were called and, when they fingerprinted the remains, they told us it belonged to a well-known local dog-napper! I think it might be wise for people to give careful consideration to exactly which dogs they attempt to pinch.

[boosboss]

Domitianus Wrote:

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> I agree with the warning about dogs being stolen.

> Only a few weeks ago someone tried to steal my two

> rottweilers. We know this to be the case because

> we returned to where they had been tethered to

> find them chewing happily on a severed arm. The

> police were called and, when they fingerprinted

> the remains, they told us it belonged to a

> well-known local dog-napper! I think it might be

> wise for people to give careful consideration to

> exactly which dogs they attempt to pinch.

How awful for you Dom. Your dogs are subject to an attempted theft and then obviously because of their actions were then euthanised because of your breach of the Dangerous Dogs Act :( Shocking :)-D

[Domitianus]

Well, you know, dogs will be dogs!

[spadetownboy]

Keef Wrote:

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> Mark Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Having an "outdoor dog" that doesn't come into

> the house is quite normal in England too. And a

> dog outside a cafe, even if it is raining, is not

> really animal abuse, like its owner said "He has

> this big furry coat thing that keeps him warm in

> the rain/snow/wind".

>

> Just because it's common doesn't make it right, I

> feel strongly that you shouldn't have a dog unless

> you have the time to spend with it, and treat it

> right. They are not wild animals anymore, and need

> affection. I can't stand people going out to work

> all day and leaving a dog in the garden!

>

> As for the dogs "owner", James said he saw this at

> the weekend, therapist said s/he was there this

> morning. Therapist may well have tied his dog

> "under the eaves sheltering from the pouring

> rain". James' post suggests that the dogs he saw

> were left in the rain, and that is cruel. Coat or

> no coat, a dog would seek shelter.

>

> By the way Mark, I can't believe the Administrator

> Lounged you, that's harsh man ;-)

you can,t stand people going to work all day and leaving a dog in a gargen, so its better then to go to work and leave it cooped up in a house where there even more limited space for it to move about and nowhere for it to go to the toilet?

[AllforNun]

?Because of their training and skills the Institute of Environmental Heath Officers has stated that assistance dogs are exempt from the usual hygiene rules that apply to dogs, including those that relate to areas where food is being served? (SP8, DRC 2003)

BoosBoss - As for reasons why Dogs should not be allowed in the Cafe they are just to numerous and obvious to mention.

Ps. Are your numbers at FOPR swelling ?

[Keef]

spadetownboy Wrote:

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> you can,t stand people going to work all day and

> leaving a dog in a gargen, so its better then to

> go to work and leave it cooped up in a house where

> there even more limited space for it to move about

> and nowhere for it to go to the toilet?

Couldn't agree more. I don't think you should have a dog if your lifestyle means leavin it alone all day in or out doors.