CPZ: Proposed Controlled Parking in East Dulwich

[Abe_froeman]

The suggestion that you solve the commuter issue for those near the station by only implementing the CPZ is wrong - you will just tip the problem into the next nearest streets. Part of the issue in ED is all of the recently implemented CPZs on Dog Kennel hill, Peckham, North Dulwich, Denmark Hill, Herne Hill Denmark etc.

[rare_breeds]

Hi James,

Well we're splitting hairs, happy to call it 2% rather than 1.8% of all car owners in ED that have made complaints in over 3 years... Implementation of a ED wide CPZ with all associated costs and upheaval can't be justified on that level of complaint alone, this is about local taxation of car owners more than it is solving a critical issue affecting our community... the fact other boroughs have implemented such zones with fewer complaints feels like it's an easy win for local gov... This will cost us car owners hundreds of pounds of year (1 car plus visitor passes for 12 months) and you know as well as I that while pitched at ?125 per annum now it'll probably double in 5 years... there's no going back once opted in to this... I'm sure it'll happen at some stage and probably rightly so but can't see why the time is now?

[rendelharris]

rare_breeds Wrote:

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> This will cost us car owners hundreds of

> pounds of year (1 car plus visitor passes for 12

> months) and you know as well as I that while

> pitched at ?125 per annum now it'll probably

> double in 5 years...

On-street parking permits in Southwark have remained fixed at ?125 since 2012, so not sure on what you base that slightly hysterical statement.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Complaints are also often overblown. I have heard people complaining that it's impossible to park on our street, when the truth is that they mean "impossible to park directly outside my house". It's something which you can see in many of the responses on here. People who live on the same street with apparently, different experiences of reality. I would hope that the council doesn't make such huge investments based on such a small number of anecdotal accounts.

[Galileo]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> Complaints are also often overblown. I have heard

> people complaining that it's impossible to park on

> our street, when the truth is that they mean

> "impossible to park directly outside my house".

> It's something which you can see in many of the

> responses on here. People who live on the same

> street with apparently, different experiences of

> reality. I would hope that the council doesn't

> make such huge investments based on such a small

> number of anecdotal accounts.

Yes, what they should do is a proper consultation rather than rely on anecdotal evidence ... oh hang on, wait ... that?s what they?re doing!

[ED_moots]

Worth remembering (as James B has clarified to me on pm, thank you James) that there are 2 consultations going on. West Peckham AND East Dulwich and that residents can respond to BOTH. I feel the fancy information pack isn't clear on this point but it's important whichever way you're swinging.

[doogsey]

worldwiser Wrote:

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> I think it's inaccurate to state that a CPZ is

> predominantly designed to stop commuters. Its

> purpose is to benefit residents.

Could you, or anyone willing, please describe the ways in which it benefits residents?

[alex_b]

Rockets Wrote:

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> Galileo, I feel for you living next to the station

> and agree that it must be awful but the proposals

> will not deal with your problem and your sister in

> law will likely still end-up parking streets away.

> I don?t know what road you live on but do look at

> the number of non-resident bays on your road and

> work out whether if one or two other visitors are

> in the area, or commuters phoning from wherever

> they work to pay for parking, whether she will get

> a space.

>

> Also, will the CPZ operate at weekends?

People parking with a visitors voucher bought by a resident can park in the residents parking. Its only those using pay by phone who are restricted to the non-resident visitors bays of which there are limited numbers.

[Chuckd]

I welcome this scheme. Living on the Goose Green end of Crystal Palace Road, during the leisure centre open hours I struggle to park. i can often spend at least 15mins sometimes half an hour driving around trying to find a parking space within 5 minutes walk of my house. I don't expect to be able to park directly outside my house but it would be helpful to park relatively near my house. On Sunday evenings when the Leisure Centre is closed the street is half empty with lots of spaces. The worst times are when swimming lessons are on from 4-7pm and on Saturday mornings. So for those on my street the CPZ hours would ideally cover those times.

[worldwiser]

doogsey - I think this is already plain from both the consultation documents and the positive comments on here. Despite people's blind assertions that parking spaces decrease, occupancy rates return to current levels over time etc etc, this is not the experience of anywhere else CPZs have been introduced. Being able to find a parking space within a short walk of your house and being able to find that space in a short space of time. That is the benefit. It's a balance of priorities to be sure but who is more important? Parents with young children trying to get home or commuters? Elderly or mobility-impaired individuals who can't get disabled badges or shoppers? People with permanent roots in their neighbourhoods or estate agents?

[Rockets]

Being able to find a parking space within a short walk of your house and being able to find that space in a short space of time. That is the benefit.

Yes Worldwiser - that is the benefit to YOU. And Chuckd gets a space less than 5 minutes from their house to the detriment of the people trying to use the leisure centre (you can apply the same thing for the doctors/shops or any other public facility in the area).

And the information the council shares on where they have claimed victories with CPZs are in areas that were just commuter parking. In fact, if you speak to anyone in areas around the Walworth Road they will say CPZs have had a massively detrimental impact on the shops in the area.

I think a lot of people are asking whether that is a price worth paying just so you don't have to spend 5 minutes looking for a parking space.

I used to live on Chesterfield Grove and yes, I used to get frustrated when I couldn't find a parking space, but I was sanguine enough to realise it was the price I paid for living next to such an amazing place as Lordship Lane.

[Cardelia]

worldwiser Wrote:

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> It seems to me that a CPZ is

> only controversial in ED. Everywhere else in

> London at this radius from the centre has one.

> Every city in the country has them. Come to think

> of it, every city in the world I've ever visited

> does and their existence is unremarkable. This is

> how sensible cities (and especially ones that were

> built for the era of the horse and cart) manage

> traffic.

Well, not every area in London at this radius has a CPZ. Most areas do, admittedly, but there are still pockets of suburbia in zones 2/3 which don't have a CPZ. These areas tend to be awkward to access for commuters and/or are poorly served by public transport (much like ED in fact) but because there isn't parking pressure from commuters the residents have strongly resisted the drive for a CPZ.

You're right that pretty much every city in this country has a CPZ of some kind. But I can't think of a city which has blanket CPZ coverage; even cities like Bath, where parking pressures are enormous, have pockets of free parking close to the city centre. Typically these areas are difficult to access by visitors/commuters which is why the residents don't see the need for a CPZ.

[Earl Aelfheah]

worldwiser Wrote:

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It seems to me that a CPZ is

> only controversial in ED. Everywhere else in

> London at this radius from the centre has one.

> Every city in the country has them. Come to think

> of it, every city in the world I've ever visited

> does and their existence is unremarkable. This is

> how sensible cities (and especially ones that were

> built for the era of the horse and cart) manage

> traffic.

There are few places in zone 2 London which are so far from a tube station, or which don't have hire bikes for getting to / from the station. There are few other parts of 'inner london' that don't have a cycle superhighway, or where you can't get to a tube station after a short bus journey.

In this part of SE London, bus journeys and bike journeys aren't 'last mile' transport, they're the main way of getting all the way into town.

[spinesrus]

Dulwich Chiropractic Clinic has been treating patients in the area for over 20 years. We are situated at 277 Crystal Palace Road, near the junctions of Goodrich and Heber Road. It is highly unlikely that this area of East Dulwich is affected much, if at all, by commuter parking as it is a good 20 minute walk to the closest station from here. If the proposed parking restrictions are implemented (the current proposal is 8.30am - 6.30pm Monday to Saturday) patients will be forced to park a minimum of 10 - 15 minutes walk away. Many of our patients are in such pain they can barely walk across the forecourt of the clinic. The council have given very little time for public consultation and will close on it 31st January 2019. They have had to extend it by 3 weeks because so many people have not received their consultation packs. We only received ours yesterday. The proposed parking scheme will have a significant negative impact of the majority of our patients as well as potentially being catastrophic for the clinic. We would be grateful to any patients if they could go online at www.southwark.gov.uk/parkingprojects and click on the link to "East Dulwich Parking Study and Healthier Streets Consultation" and register their views on how it would affect them as a patient. Many thanks, Daniel and Sue Harvey

[Sue]

d.b Wrote:

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> However it's REALLY stupid to think that therefore

> if you force more people who currently drive to

> walk, then they will pay more. No... clearly not.

> They will go somewhere else where they can drive

> and park easily.

That was one of the first things that occurred to me.

[spinesrus]

If these restrictions go ahead as planned and residents only parking is implemented from 8.30am - 6.30pm Monday - Saturday, the majority of our patients will be unable to access the clinic for treatment as they will not be able to park close enough. It would be a 10 - 15 minute walk from the closest unrestricted zone. Many patients can barely walk when they come in for treatment. If you are a patient and will be affected by these parking proposals please register your opinion at www.southwark.gov.uk/parking projects and click on the link to "East Dulwich Parking Study & Healthier Streets Consultation". This needs to be done before the consultation closes on 31st January 2019. Many thanks

[Galileo]

spinesrus Wrote:

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> Dulwich Chiropractic Clinic has been treating

> patients in the area for over 20 years. We are

> situated at 277 Crystal Palace Road, near the

> junctions of Goodrich and Heber Road. It is highly

> unlikely that this area of East Dulwich is

> affected much, if at all, by commuter parking as

> it is a good 20 minute walk to the closest station

> from here. If the proposed parking restrictions

> are implemented (the current proposal is 8.30am -

> 6.30pm Monday to Saturday) patients will be forced

> to park a minimum of 10 - 15 minutes walk away.

> Many of our patients are in such pain they can

> barely walk across the forecourt of the clinic.

> The council have given very little time for public

> consultation and will close on it 31st January

> 2019. They have had to extend it by 3 weeks

> because so many people have not received their

> consultation packs. We only received ours

> yesterday. The proposed parking scheme will have a

> significant negative impact of the majority of our

> patients as well as potentially being catastrophic

> for the clinic. We would be grateful to any

> patients if they could go online at

> www.southwark.gov.uk/parkingprojects and click on

> the link to "East Dulwich Parking Study and

> Healthier Streets Consultation" and register their

> views on how it would affect them as a patient.

> Many thanks, Daniel and Sue Harvey

Just to clarify there are different time proposals ranging from a 2 hour period, to all day, and part of the consultation is to ask which of these the respondent thinks is appropriate (if at all). Also, the consultation has been extended by one week due to late delivery of mail.

Should the CPZ go ahead in your street, could you ask for some times bays outside of your premises to asssit with this? It does seem a compelling argument that some of the people you treat have mobility issues. Is it all residents permits down your street or are there any paid (first half hour free) bays?

[MarkT]

Close to spinerus is a proposed pay to park bay, shared with permit holders, in Jennings Rd, possibly sited with intention that it is available to Heber Road School. Such bays seem to be located close to a range of community facilities. If another such bay were placed close to the clinic, perhaps every resident permit holder, commuter, and tradesperson would altruistically leave it for spinesrus clients, but I suspect, given that people can pay by phone, every such island of pay to park would be blocked all day, and unavailable to the indended users.

[tash b]

spinesrus Wrote:

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> If these restrictions go ahead as planned and

> residents only parking is implemented from 8.30am

> - 6.30pm Monday - Saturday, the majority of our

> patients will be unable to access the clinic for

> treatment as they will not be able to park close

> enough. It would be a 10 - 15 minute walk from the

> closest unrestricted zone.

Think your find that it?s more a 5 minutes walk to unrestricted zone from Barry road it?s stops so people can park from the start of that part of Goodrich road.

[intexasatthe moment]

Not sure I quite understand tash b's post but ...it's more than a 5min walk from Barry Rd ( say from the junction with Silvester) to The Neighborhood Vets and Barry Rd is one of the roads where a CPZ is being considered .

[Rockets]

I think Tash B is suggesting people should park on the other side of Barry Road along Goodrich Road and then walk to the clinic. But I think Tash B is missing the point that people visiting the clinic often are unable to walk any distance at all which is why they have to visit the clinic in the first place. Same with ESPH that does a lot of rehab for patients from various hospitals in the area.

Hopefully now people are starting to realise how much of a negative impact these plans will have on our area and our community and will change their minds about whether they are getting excited about "being able to park in front of my house"!

[ali2007]

I am 100% against this. I used to live in Brixton/Herne Hill when they introduced CPZ there. I was a 10min walk away from the tube. The CPZ around the tube, bumped cars onto neighbouring streets until the whole area was covered in CPZ. I now hate going to Brixton because I'm always watching the meter, looking out for traffic wardens who patrol the streets on mopeds hoping to catch people out.

I now only go to Brixton if it's essential even though I have family who still live there. I can't pop in for a cup of tea to see my mother in law as that will cost me ?3 per hour. I've been given parking tickets because I completed a visitors permit in pencil (not pen) so that cost ?120 over 2 days. Does anyone in their right mind want to invite this into their lives???

This will not benefit our community. It will alienate visitors

I for one will be very sad if a CPZ is introduced to the ED.

[Galileo]

Rockets, I have not read anyone saying they want to park outside of their house. Can you point to a post that says that? I have read about people wanting to park reasonably near their house, without having to circle for 20 minutes before finding such a spot. Have you considered that some may have mobility issues of their own? Other reasons this would make a big difference to them? A CPZ is to help share out the limited resource of road parking where demand outstrips supply. The examples given of a Chiropractic clinic or rehabilitation centre are great examples of where hopefully input into this consultation could help build something that could balance these many competing demands on those roads where required, which won?t necessarily be every road in the consultation, and won?t necessarily require the same approach for every road..

[tash b]

Rockets Wrote:

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> I think Tash B is suggesting people should park on

> the other side of Barry Road along Goodrich Road

> and then walk to the clinic. But I think Tash B is

> missing the point that people visiting the clinic

> often are unable to walk any distance at all which

> is why they have to visit the clinic in the first

> place. Same with ESPH that does a lot of rehab for

> patients from various hospitals in the area.

I suggest you read my post properly I wasn?t suggesting anyone to park there was pointing out that it?s not a 10 to 15 minute walk to unrestricted zone

>

>

[Rockets]

Galileo, it is a turn of phrase....

As I said previously I used to live on Chesterfield Grove and am well aware of the challenges of finding a space near to my home but never did I drive around for 20 minutes trying to find one. That reads like another council claim!

A CPZ is a tax and per ali2007s comments above yours perhaps we should heed the warnings of those who have lived through it and ponder what people not bothering to drive to the Lane will mean. Interestingly to ali2007's point on traffic wardens the council is promising more enforcement in their documentation per the below:

"Enforcement of short stay bays will be improved, as visitors will need to register for pay-byphone, and would therefore ensure a higher turnover of short-stay visitors"

So more tickets for the slightest indiscretion....

If you want to put your parking convenience before the good of your thriving local community so be it but there are many of us who think the fabric of Lordship Lane and East Dulwich is worth protecting.