June 3rd will be the last day of The Palmerston

[DovertheRoad]

Could it count as an asset of community value and go the ACV route?

[JoeLeg]

Zebedee Tring Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Assuming that the tenant actually wanted a new

> lease, surely it would be possible for to serve a

> counter notice under the business tenancy

> provisions of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1954 (or

> whatever is the current legislation) requesting a

> new tenancy. The landlord can't just evict a

> business tenant willy nilly and would have to have

> specific grounds to do so.

The Palmerston Instagram post indicates that they ?have not been offered a new lease?, which suggests to me that the lease has expired and Jaime has been invited to leave. It sounds like this is not an eviction, simply one side of the negotiation declining to continue the arrangement.

Not that it makes it any better for all the staff involved, Burt I suppose they have st least got time to look for new work.

[jimbo1964]

That is very sad news.

[Abe_froeman]

I don't really understand this. This article suggests that the tenants own the actual pub!

https://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Article/2011/02/17/Exclusive-Host-turns-tables-on-Enterprise-Inns

[rendelharris]

Abe_froeman Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't really understand this. This article

> suggests that the tenants own the actual pub!

>

> https://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Article/2011/0

> 2/17/Exclusive-Host-turns-tables-on-Enterprise-Inn

> s

Think that implies that Rigby became the owner back in 2011 and it's he, not Enterprise, who were leasing it to the current occupants?

[Abe_froeman]

Maybe so Rendel, but it says that he took over the pub with his business partner Jamie Younger.

[JohnL]

There's a huge court case here and I don't understand it, but there's a 1989 30 year lease. That expires 2019 ?

https://www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5a8ff72c60d03e7f57ea919a

[JoeLeg]

Well this just gets weirder and weirder...

All I?ll say is that Enterprise are one of the nastiest, scummiest group of bottom-feeding pieces of crap you could ever hope to avoid, and if they?re Jaime?s opposition I actually feel sorry for him (there?s a first!).

[ali2007]

this is very sad indeed. I LOVE the Palmerston. Best food in ED in my opinion :-(

[rendelharris]

Abe_froeman Wrote:

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> Maybe so Rendel, but it says that he took over the

> pub with his business partner Jamie Younger.

Sorry, missed that bit. Maybe they've fallen out? All seems daft complex. Can't say the Palmerston has ever been a great favourite (though perfectly acceptable for a pint and conveniently positioned right opposite the dentist!) but it'd be really sad to see yet another pub disappear for posh flats or retail.

[DovertheRoad]

Genuine question - what kind of business grosses higher takings than a good, well loved restaurant on LL?

[Abe_froeman]

I cant see that site becoming flats. It is in the best location, has space for plenty of covers, a loyal local clientel and will habe no sitting tenant. It must be worth an absolute fortune to the right operator.

[Abe_froeman]

Youngs for instance. If they thought the Cherru Tree was value they would pay a fortune for the Palmerston.

[JoeLeg]

DovertheRoad Wrote:

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> Genuine question - what kind of business grosses

> higher takings than a good, well loved restaurant

> on LL?

In hospitality - like all businesses - it?s not so much about turnover as profit margin. And profits in the restaurant world a pretty thin at the best of times. These are not the best of times in that industry.

[Loutwo]

Nando?s maybe?

Louisa.

[JoeLeg]

Abe_froeman Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I cant see that site becoming flats. It is in the

> best location, has space for plenty of covers, a

> loyal local clientel and will habe no sitting

> tenant. It must be worth an absolute fortune to

> the right operator.

This is what confuses me about what I?ve been told confidentialy; although I can well imagine Enterprise Inns decideong to take it back for themselves , I can?t really see a better use for that location than what it is right now.

There?s obviously a lot more going on behind the scenes then we can tell, and I genuinely hope this location remains a quality local drinking/eating place. Unfortunately if Enterprise have taken back control they?ll probably maul it, they?re really awful operators.

[JoeLeg]

Loutwo Wrote:

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> Nando?s maybe?

>

> Louisa.

Something like that is possible. I reckon it?s need deep pockets to redevelop. The more I think about it, the more I just can?t see it being turned residential or retail.

[rendelharris]

Actually (not saying I'd approve of this or otherwise) but surely a Pizza Express on that site would be a goldmine?

[reds]

This is highly likely to stay as a pub. Enterprise inns have increasingly moved from a tenanted to a managed model over the last couple of years. Fullers are also doing this. Bermondsey pub company and frontier pubs (eg chandos in Honor Oak) are two of the 'pub groups' owned by EI under which an increasing number of their pubs are being moved.

[JoeLeg]

If that?s the case then brace yourself Easy Dulwich, because whatever replaces the Palmerston will be sheeeeite!

Enterprise are pants. Utterly pants and f?ing immoral.

[Sue]

Abe_froeman Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Youngs for instance. If they thought the Cherru

> Tree was value they would pay a fortune for the

> Palmerston.

Oh no.

Please not another Young's pub :(

[malumbu]

Is it likely to stay as a pub (noting I agree with comments about the Youngs/Ram chain...). If not will it be the loss of a lovely Victorian pub? If the latter I'll make enquiries my my local 'save historic pubs) person - is it unique enough to be listed?

[Sue]

Maybe speak to the people who got The Ivy House listed at very short notice?

The developers who bought it weren't then able to turn it into flats (I think I've remembered that right).

As a separate issue (I think) it was then listed as an asset of community value, after which it became a community pub

I'm not suggesting in any way that anybody should go down that route with The Palmerston.

I don't think a community owned pub would work in East Dulwich.

But getting it listed might at least save it as a pub. Like The Ivy House, it seems to have an interior well worth saving

[anonymous_third_part]

Not sad to see it go. Far too expensive. Last time I went in the chef's had their names printed on the menu like it was a Michelin star restaurant.

Food was OK,but cost me than central London for average stuff. Much rather go to SE15 for food now.

[EDOldie]

Zebedee Tring Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Assuming that the tenant actually wanted a new

> lease, surely it would be possible for to serve a

> counter notice under the business tenancy

> provisions of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1954 (or

> whatever is the current legislation) requesting a

> new tenancy. The landlord can't just evict a

> business tenant willy nilly and would have to have

> specific grounds to do so.

I think that Jamie and his pal (Freeholders) do own the freehold but I'm guessing there is also a long lease to Enterprise Inns (Leaseholders) and a thirty year sub lease to the restaurant (Tenant). The leaseholders could oppose the granting of a new lease to the tenants on the basis that they need the premises for their own use. There are a pub company so it can't really be opposed by the tenant. So it's goodbye much loved and valued local restaurant and pub, albeit with not very good beer in it but probably not the fault of the pub as they may be tied in to buying beer from the leaseholders, and hello to another pubco in Lordship Lane. In France they have laws against this sort of thing but I expect the authorities are powerless to anything about it.