warning-strange man hanging around in childrens playground.

[El Pibe]

Conjugate the verb 'To Project'

I am independently minded.

You are incapable of rational thought.

They are victims of social peer pressure.

[the-e-dealer]

Angel Delight ! ? Yum !!

[Louisa]

I've been incapable of rational thought for years, especially since battling with the hearts and minds of the intelligencia on here! But I'm like a rat up a drain pipe when it comes to fighting the corner for the old school ED'ers in their battle with the Clapham invaders with their love of all things organic and expensive. And yes they are victims of peer pressure!

Louisa.

[Penguin68]

It was a decent independently owned restaurant, but because it didn't 'fit in' with te image the new middle class residents wanted to promote of ED, it failed to survive the onslaught of drastically changing trends. Like many of the peculiarities of middle class folk, they pick and choose which 'indy' shops fit in with their remit, and equally re same with chain stores/restaurants. A real shame, a real local business. But oh well, as long we have gourmet burgers and organic cat litter who cares eh? Long live Clapham!

Or to put it another way - it failed to meet, or perhaps to communicate it was meeting, customer needs. That's a failure of marketing (marketeers identify customer needs and design products and services to meet those needs, or communicate effectively that they have got such products and services). No business is 'owed' a living just because it, in the past, did its job well. If it wanted to continue trading it should have changed to meet its customer needs - it was no longer occupying a commercial position. Lots of non cat litter and burger businesses do survive, indeed do well, in E. Dulwich. Local is of no use if it isn't good as well. Or do you subscribe to supporting bad local businesses? I certainly don't (a bad business is one that doesn't meet customer needs at a 'market' price).

[Chippy Minton]

  Quote

Like many of the peculiarities of middle class folk, they pick and choose which 'indy' shops fit in with their remit, and equally re same with chain stores/restaurants

Ehh? What is so wrong with people chosing where they spend their money? Should people have said "We think Le Moulin isn't very good, but we have to go their because it's a local 'indy' even though we'd rather go another local 'indy' that we actually really like" ??

[Louisa]

Many local Claphamites claim to be supportive of independent businesses and would rather spend their money in one of the trendy chain restaurants of the village or LL than supper a decent local place like Le Moulin, many wouldn't even set foot inside it. It's just pure snobbery a lot of the time. Of course choice is a great thing, but my argument is choice has been rail roaded around here!

Louisa.

[the-e-dealer]

SHOULD THIS BE IN THE LOUNGE?

[*Bob*]

Lou, you might consider entertaining the possibility that by spending the last five years railing somewhat spitefully against the very people who ought to have been potential new customers - that you might, in some small way - have contributed to its demise.

In short: the next time you have a favourite restaurant, the management would probably prefer it if your online persona kept it to herself.

[the-e-dealer]

I used to like Spaghetti Weston!

[Otta]

  Quote

it didn't 'fit in' with te image the new middle class residents wanted to promote of ED, it failed to survive the onslaught of drastically changing trends.

Are you talking about The CPT?

I never ate in Le Moulin, but I heard nothing but very good things about it from friends that had. It can't be denied though that the place could have looked a bit better from the outside.

[Jeremy]

I ate in LM once, and it was actually OK-ish. But even my parents would find the decor and the menu hopelessly dated. People's tastes have changed in the last 30 years, and if a business can't grasp that simple fact then I'm afraid they are going to struggle. Being local/independent doesn't give you an automatic entitlement to a loyal customer base.

[grumpyoldman]

So does that mean we can have a Waitrose and Marks and Spencer.

As a radio program would say

Mornigton Cresent.

However I do object to a serious but possibly over reactioned set of postings to be hijacked as a way having a slagging match between various parties.

Shall I start a slagging match thread?

[Marmora Man]

  Quote

I promote people to be cautious of strangers and always on your toes when your human instinct kicks in and you suspect someone of being threatening or ever so slighty dodgy. Many of the middle-class people in ED, with the greatest respect, tend to live in a fantasy wet behind the ears world where e regime is lovely and you won't come across harm if your nice to people etc - this is London, it's been a vile, corrupt, suspicious and crime ridden city for centuries

What a nasty and suspicious person you are. I was born and brought up in London and have lived here on and off over the last 50+ years. In the 50's I caught buses and tubes, went to the Children's Exhibition with other school friends, went on Green Rover trips, got drunk in Soho and elsewhere as a young man, went to dodgy pubs at strange hours, wandered dark streets at night and I have always, always found that assuming the best and expecting the best pays dividends. This has stood me in good stead in some really dodgy spots (Harlem in the 70's; Amsterdam docks, Glasgow on a Saturday night in the 70s).

Only a few years back my then 11 year old son caught the wrong train back from school and became completely lost in South London and ran out of juice on his mobile phone - a stranger recognised his uniform, asked what the problem was, bought him a cola, sat him down in a cafe and rang home to advise of the problem. They then stayed with my son until I arrived to collect him, buying yet more cola and biscuits and refusing all recompense from me when I arrived. That's the sort of London I inhabit and the sort of London most of us inhabit. Suspicion engenders suspicion and damages community relations.

Be nice and people will, usually, be nice back to you.

Mark you it does perhaps help to be 6'5" and well built :)

[mynamehere]

Here's a real story that happened at a school: There was a sports event and parents watching. One group of parents decided that a parent over there doing nothing special away from them looked dodgy so they decided to call the police. True story. Actually, I'm a little ish white woman and the same thing without the police happened to me... I was watching something my son was involved in and I was on the wrong side of a chain link fence and people decided I was dodgy and treated me like a dodgy person. hmmmm in fact there are people who know me who think I am dodgy

[ludoscotts]

mynamehere Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Here's a real story that happened at a school:

> There was a sports event and parents watching. One

> group of parents decided that a parent over there

> doing nothing special away from them looked dodgy

> so they decided to call the police. True story.

> Actually, I'm a little ish white woman and the

> same thing without the police happened to me... I

> was watching something my son was involved in and

> I was on the wrong side of a chain link fence and

> people decided I was dodgy and treated me like a

> dodgy person. hmmmm in fact there are people who

> know me who think I am dodgy

hi if you are thinking that the man was like you innocently watching his own child then this is def not the case. The re was know-one else in the park except myself and my children. He was standing by the flats as we approached the park, on seeing us entering the park he then came in too And was watching me and my children only,there wasn't anyone else there.

also following up comments that are suggesting he is perhaps special needs/care in the community I of course can't be sure but I don't think so. Ive worked with people with special needs and I didn't get that impression from him.

[AbDabs]

There's dodgy and there's dodgy. A young man hanging around a playground may be doing so because he knows there will be lots of distracted mums not keeping enough of an eye on their handbag. Let's take heed of the warning and watch bags and children but also remember that there are some terribly lonely people out there with limited social skills and whose attempts to make contact with the rest of the human race may come across badly at times.

[JohnL]

I was helping my friend build a shed in his garden once when his wife asked him to

take his children to the park - I went too. While he played with the children on

the slide, I was left standing rather embarrassed at the edge of the playground.

AbDabs Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There's dodgy and there's dodgy. A young man

> hanging around a playground may be doing so

> because he knows there will be lots of distracted

> mums not keeping enough of an eye on their

> handbag. Let's take heed of the warning and watch

> bags and children but also remember that there are

> some terribly lonely people out there with limited

> social skills and whose attempts to make contact

> with the rest of the human race may come across

> badly at times.

[the-e-dealer]

Why didnt you join in?

[GinaG3]

Just to say thanks for the info, I regularly take my daughter to the park as we live on the estate. We are there on our own more often than not. I've never seen anyone hanging around, that I can recall. Just to say though there has been a police presence on the estate over the last 3 days or so, one policewoman 'patrolling' as it were. Maybe this is the reason?

[ludoscotts]

From what ice been told there were quite a few reports from different people last week with concerns about a man all fitting the same description so that prob is the reason.

[Saffron]

A friend who has lived in London many years gave me this advice: Take a pic of the suspected dodgy person on your phone and send it to a friend or your partner. Then if the worst is true and you are mugged for your phone etc, at least someone has a record of the person's face. Also, simply taking the pic might deter the person from approaching you. That's just some advice I was given. Thankfully I've never had to use said advice.

Also re "care in the community", the sad but honest truth is that being in some way less able mentally or physically does not necessarily mean that the person is not up to something dodgy. I'm not at all casting aspersions. I'm making a statement about the corruptability of human nature. Rotten people can come in all shapes and forms.

Especially for women, follow your instincts. Lone women or women with small children are easy targets for crime. If it is truly a case of mistaken identity, the innocent person shouldn't feel insulted. An honest mistake is just a mistake.

[jelly]

@Saffron

Surely taking pictures of seemingly suspect men and women in public - however 'dodgy' they may be acting, towards you or others - could eventually (or instantly) invite/spark an aggressive, or at least suspicious, reaction from one of the potential rogues in your gallery? Good idea in theory, but unnecessarily risky in practice.

[Saffron]

It's no riskier than doing nothing, b/c you don't want accidentally to insult an innocent person.

I think the idea is that you're supposed to take the pic in public view at a distance. If someone is dodgy enough to make aggressive actions towards you from a distance just for taking a picture, then it's a good thing that you've got a pic for your police report. If you felt uncomfortable, you also could take a pic surreptitiously.

If someone is acting dodgy towards you somewhere out of the immediate view of others (or within close range in public), you should contact the police as others have suggested. This is the kind of issue their service was meant to address.

[Otta]

Surely there is a risk that on realising they are being photographed, a person who wasn't actually doing anything sinister initially, could respond aggressively.

[jelly]

@Saffron

Steady on there, 007. The risks outweight the positives, and if you "think" that snapping ordinary members of the public, however 'shifty' they might look, should be done from a distance, then you should've said so in the beginning seeing as you're the one who suggested such a bizarre measure against people who still remain innocent of anything except rousing your own suspicions. What you're encouraging is a more intrusive measure than CCTV, without official sanction. It would be against the law and could potentially leave you vulnerable to litigation served by an aggrieved party who objects to being photographed in public by an anxious and/or paranoid pedestrian. How would you react if you saw someone secretly or "serreptitiously" taking pictures of another member of the public who you didn't feel threatened by? One can only assume that you'd think the worst. Sorry, but the risks do outweigh the positives. By quite a lot, in fact.