The new demographic

[geh]

Maybe I?m old now but to the two families in Franca Manca tonight, is it really acceptable in a packed restaurant to stand your toddlers on the tables (which presumably others will soon eat off) in their wellies, in order to put nappies on them? I would have thought it would be more suitable to use the WC?s?

I do hope you left a suitably large tip for the staff who spend a considerable amount of time both clearing up after you, and also apologising to other diners for your generally boorish behaviour?

Perhaps you have some similarly minded friends who would also like to live here?

I?m fast coming to the view that I would be best placed to rent them my house at over the odds, thus funding me to sit on my arse and enjoy somewhere with fewer obnoxious, self-centred, myopic individuals (if such a place exists?).

Enjoy the half term!

[singalto]

Gross..

[nxjen]

Dreadful behaviour but the fact the waitress felt compelled to apologise for these customers? behaviour points to it being neither acceptable nor a regular occurrence. Likely their behaviour was alcohol fuelled.

[imasnookercue]

very unacceptable. Had i been the owner/manager of the restaurant, they'd have been thrown out and told not to return.

[Angelina]

what, they changed their toddler's nappies on their own? They didn't try and get the waiting staff to do it for them?

[Penguin68]

what, they changed their toddler's nappies on their own? They didn't try and get the waiting staff to do it for them?

It's the location, not the fact - but you knew that, didn't you?

[JohnL]

Surely one was sober and should have taken responsibility.

[fishbiscuits]

That's pretty disgusting.

When ours was in nappies, my general thinking was - if they have baby changing facilities, use them. If they don't - don't go there.

[TheArtfulDogger]

It's hardly new to be honest. Observing posts on the forum over the years, it does seem to becoming the normal sort of behaviour.. Sadly

[FreyaMikaelson]

I'm not even shocked anymore. I'm just curious to know how many of these kids have ADHD & autisim, or if they're just being brought up to act like they do.

[Sue]

I don't understand this.

The staff in Franco Manca were aware that this was happening and didn't intervene in any way?

[Sue]

FreyaMikaelson Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm not even shocked anymore. I'm just curious to

> know how many of these kids have ADHD & autisim,

> or if they're just being brought up to act like

> they do.

But it was the parents who stood them on a reataurant table and changed their nappies.

I can't see what ADHD or autism has to do with it?

[FreyaMikaelson]

Sue Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> FreyaMikaelson Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I'm not even shocked anymore. I'm just curious

> to

> > know how many of these kids have ADHD &

> autisim,

> > or if they're just being brought up to act like

> > they do.

>

>

> But it was the parents who stood them on a

> reataurant table and changed their nappies.

>

> I can't see what ADHD or autism has to do with it?

The way young children are acting in this area is a reflection of parents like this is what I am getting at.

[seenbeen]

FreyaMikaelson Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm not even shocked anymore. I'm just curious to

> know how many of these kids have ADHD & autisim,

> or if they're just being brought up to act like

> they do.

Interesting- if your child is diagnosed with ADHD then the support network is pretty good and you get extra time for exams and you can do the exams in a separate room from other people. Unis and schools get extra money for such students so it is to be encouraged surely....it's probably impossible to 'train' your child to be autistic though. There is a category of child behaviour called 'oppositional defiant disorder' - does what it says on the tin....I expect children could easily be brought up to be like that. My mum always said I was 'defiant' but you just had to live with it when I was growing up.

[Annie5]

Gross - and extremely selfish ......

[Asset]

I would have said something to them if I had witnessed that

[dulwichbloke]

FreyaMikaelson Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sue Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > FreyaMikaelson Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > I'm not even shocked anymore. I'm just

> curious

> > to

> > > know how many of these kids have ADHD &

> > autisim,

> > > or if they're just being brought up to act

> like

> > > they do.

> >

> >

> > But it was the parents who stood them on a

> > reataurant table and changed their nappies.

> >

> > I can't see what ADHD or autism has to do with

> it?

>

>

> The way young children are acting in this area is

> a reflection of parents like this is what I am

> getting at.

Sorry - I don't understand that sentence at all. How does your reference to Autism or ADHD have anything to do with some parents acting in a disgusting way in a restaurant? Why did you mention Autism/ADHD in the context of this thread?

[Earl Aelfheah]

@dulwichbloke - you're right, there is no link to the parents behaviour and the child having (or not having) ADHD or autism.

That said (as it's been raised already), what is the difference between a child diagnosed with ADHD, autism or oppositional defiant disorder and a child regularly acting in a way that is consistent with the behaviour a disorder describes? In other words, are some / any of those disorders more than just a term to describe a set of behaviours?

Apologies if that's an ignorant question, but generally interested. Is the difference just a label from a psychiatrist? The suggestion above (and I've heard it before) is that one child (the one whose behaviour has been 'diagnosed') is deserving of help and the other is not, which seems weird to me.

[hpsaucey]

FreyaMikaelson Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sue Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > FreyaMikaelson Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > I'm not even shocked anymore. I'm just

> curious

> > to

> > > know how many of these kids have ADHD &

> > autisim,

> > > or if they're just being brought up to act

> like

> > > they do.

> >

> >

> > But it was the parents who stood them on a

> > reataurant table and changed their nappies.

> >

> > I can't see what ADHD or autism has to do with

> it?

>

>

> The way young children are acting in this area is

> a reflection of parents like this is what I am

> getting at.

And the reference to adhd and autism frankly irrelevant, wrong and insulting. Hopefully borne of ignorance...

HP

[FreyaMikaelson]

hpsaucey Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> And the reference to adhd and autism frankly

> irrelevant, wrong and insulting. Hopefully borne

> of ignorance...

> HP

No. The mere mention of ADHD & autism is insulting to you, HP. Which is quite frankly ignorant. My partner works with autistics for a living & the connection between the way parents allow their children to act & the behaviour of those with ADHD & autism is definetly present.

I am merely questioning if there is an increase in East Dulwich of children with ADHD &/or autism or if bad parenting is causing children to show the same behavioural issues as that of people with ADHD & autism. I'd like to know the statistics.

rahrahah raises a question that I too am interested in.

If you don't understand, just say that. You don't have to find yourself instantly offended by words you don't like to hear.

[hpsaucey]

FreyaMikaelson Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> hpsaucey Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > And the reference to adhd and autism frankly

> > irrelevant, wrong and insulting. Hopefully

> borne

> > of ignorance...

> > HP

>

>

> No. The mere mention of ADHD & autism is insulting

> to you, HP. Which is quite frankly ignorant. My

> partner works with autistics for a living & the

> connection between the way parents allow their

> children to act & the behaviour of those with ADHD

> & autism is definetly present.

>

> I am merely questioning if there is an increase in

> East Dulwich of children with ADHD &/or autism or

> if bad parenting is causing children to show the

> same behavioural issues as that of people with

> ADHD & autism. I'd like to know the statistics.

>

> rahrahah raises a question that I too am

> interested in.

>

> If you don't understand, just say that. You don't

> have to find yourself instantly offended by words

> you don't like to hear.

No, I understand perfectly, but as a parent of two children with ASD I do find the assumptions insulting. It doesn't match the behaviour of any fellow ASD parental friends at all or children, bearing in mind of course that what you have are individuals with ASD (suspected or perhaps diagnosed, but unlikely at such a young age) it doesn't define either the child or the parent....

Yes parents with ASD and ADHD children do often find themselves parenting in a different way. As Sue says its was the parents who did the standing and changing. But there are many other ways in which this could have been interpreted. You chose to pick ASD/ADHD and a certain type of parenting and I don't agree with your automatic link here. I'd be interested to hear what sorts of parenting you think lead to ASD and ADHD-type 'behaviour' whatever that means here and what your evidence is. I'm assuming you work with ASD children too or have hands-on experience in some way.

HP

[malumbu]

Not really sure what this thread is about? Dulwich is full of families who feel that they are entitled. Go to DHFC on a sunny day and it is full of buggies. Go to Horniman museum and it feels like it is a place for toddlers to run wild whilst the parent is Whatsapping friends. My favourite is the parent who got the potty out on the shop in North Cross Road and when challenged by the shopkeeper said "where else is Gethsemane supposed to go to pee pee" (I got this from the shop owner).

These families appear to be in the majority - yet this thread simply allows us moaning Minnies to agree with each other. It would be more interesting if Gethsemane's parents gave us their view.

[Spartacus]

Sadly mumbles , I think Gethsemane's parents would tell us all to pee pee off

[Sue]

:))

[binkylilyput]

FreyaMichaelson just so you are aware, the words ?autistics? is not an acceptable term