The East London Line extension

[showboat]

I'm sorry...you're going accuse others of making personal comments, without noticing how guilty you've been?

Of course you are. See you later troll boy, don't hurry back.

[Michael Palaeologus]

*LOL*

[PN33]

guys, guys.

Somewhere beneath the ranting I think I found out what I wanted to know so thanks!

[edcam]

I sense an unhappy soul.

[henryb]

Happens a lot on internet chat rooms unfortunately. I guess it is because there is no body language feed back to guide you. Misunderstandings and misreading of tone can quickly turn into personal attacks. Perfectly reasonable people turn into raving loonies. Not saying anyone here is a raving loony obviously!

[anonymous_third_part]

surely changing at clapham junction won't be a huge problem - and it opens up waterloo as well.

i think people should wait until its introduced and see what you think.

On the face of it, it does look bad losing the victoria service though.

[Undisputedtruth]

henryb Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Happens a lot on internet chat rooms

> unfortunately. I guess it is because there is no

> body language feed back to guide you.

> Misunderstandings and misreading of tone can

> quickly turn into personal attacks. Perfectly

> reasonable people turn into raving loonies. Not

> saying anyone here is a raving loony obviously!

Good point. But deep down I just get the feeling that they're shedding crocodile tears because they can't argue their case.

[Undisputedtruth]

anonymous_third_part Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> surely changing at clapham junction won't be a

> huge problem - and it opens up waterloo as well.

>

> i think people should wait until its introduced

> and see what you think.

>

> On the face of it, it does look bad losing the

> victoria service though.

I've used Clapham Junction a few times and it's a nightmare station. With the ELL you get off at platform 1 and then you have to bustle through a crowd of people to get to platforms 13/15. It will double travel times from Peckham Rye to Victoria for sure.

Although it does open up access to Waterloo it will be quicker to travel to Waterloo East via London Bridge.

[edcam]

Does anyone apart from Undisputedtruth know what the journey time will be Denmark Hill/Clapham Junction?

[Bic Basher]

anonymous_third_part Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> surely changing at clapham junction won't be a

> huge problem - and it opens up waterloo as well.

>

> i think people should wait until its introduced

> and see what you think.

There were concerns raised when FH and HOP had their London Bridge services reduced to 4tph, yet as soon as it opened passengers soon discovered they could use the ELL as an alternative route into central London. A trip to Canada Water's ELL southbound platform during the evening peak shows you how popular it is.

I still use Southern's peak services into LB from FH and where as pre 2010 they were packed to the rafters, the LB trains are a lot more bearable now. This was also helped by extending the platforms which allow 10 carriage trains during peak times increasing capacity.

The Clapham Junction service will be as popular as the other ELL branches because as soon as you give a new train service, it soon (after a honeymoon period) becomes another busy service when people discover the connections it offers, especially when you consider that those stations become part of the standard tube map (a misleading name when it covers all TfL services).

[LondonMix]

It will be 3 stops away (Clapham High street, Wandsworth Road and then Clapham Junction). Testing of the line has just begun but one would imagine it will be in the region of 10 minutes give or take.

[edcam]

LondonMix Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It will be 3 stops away (Clapham High street,

> Wandsworth Road and then Clapham Junction).

> Testing of the line has just begun but one would

> imagine it will be in the region of 10 minutes

> give or take.

Thanks LM

[Undisputedtruth]

edcam Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Does anyone apart from Undisputedtruth know what

> the journey time will be Denmark Hill/Clapham

> Junction?

Very simple to calculate without having to guess!

[Bic Basher]

LondonMix Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It will be 3 stops away (Clapham High street,

> Wandsworth Road and then Clapham Junction).

> Testing of the line has just begun but one would

> imagine it will be in the region of 10 minutes

> give or take.

DH to Wandsworth Road is currently timetabled to take 6 mins, depending on access to the track, I'd say 10/12 minutes depending if held at a signal.

[LondonMix]

What concerns me is it is then another 7-10 min to Waterloo or Victoria excluding transfer and waiting times. I have friends who live in Clapham and use CJ to get to work. It is already so jammed that they've told me its impossible to get on the first train that comes in rush hour. Its already an extremely packed service and unless you are terminating in CJ, it is definitely going to be a lot longer.

The extension will allow for an interchange with the existing ELL so if you were travelling to Victoria just to head west on the District Line or ultimately connect to the Notting hill area you will be able to take the ELL to West Brompton (about 17 min from Denmark Hill) or Shepherd's Bush (circa 30 min from Denmark Hill) following the ELL extension, which on balance should be better

Losing direct service to Victoria for those who were actually terminating in Victoria or going east on the District line or anywhere on the Victoria line will really be worse off.

On the other hand, anyone who was heading to London Bridge to get on the jubilee line going pretty much anywhere will have a good exchange at Canada Water and probably a quicker journey unless their final stop was London Bridge as there is less walking.

It's really tough to weigh the pros and cons without knowing where everyone's final destination is... Still losing the Victoria line seems like a bad idea on the face of it as large parts of central London will be much more hassle to get to and I suspect these areas are more relevant to most people for work.

Edited based on new info from Bic

edcam Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> LondonMix Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > It will be 3 stops away (Clapham High street,

> > Wandsworth Road and then Clapham Junction).

> > Testing of the line has just begun but one

> would

> > imagine it will be in the region of 10 minutes

> > give or take.

> Thanks LM

[Bic Basher]

LondonMix Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> The extension won't terminate at Clapham Junction

> though (it will carry on through the existing ELL)

> so if you were travelling to Victoria just to head

> west on the District Line or ultimately connect to

> the Notting hill area you will be able to take the

> ELL to West Brompton (about 17 min from Denmark

> Hill) or Shepherd's Bush (circa 30 min from

> Denmark Hill) following the ELL extension, which

> on balance should be better

You will have to change at Clapham Junction for the WLL services which go to Willesden Junction or Stratford, but unlike changing for Southern or SWT services, the Overground platforms will be together.

Southern also have a service to Milton Keynes Central which serves the WLL stations including Shepherds Bush and West Brompton.

[LondonMix]

So it will be like Earl's Court? That's disappointing...

[Bic Basher]

A picture (link below) shows how the Overground plaforms will look like at Clapham Junction, the pic shows a WLL train.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/28982714@N06/7209220044/in/photostream/

[PN33]

I cycle to victoria and back every day; takes 20/25 mins from Rodwell Road. Not for everyone but I thought worth a mention in case the train does become this anticipated nightmare!

[Undisputedtruth]

PN33 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I cycle to victoria and back every day; takes

> 20/25 mins from Rodwell Road. Not for everyone but

> I thought worth a mention in case the train does

> become this anticipated nightmare!

I cycled through to Victoria last night and is not a bad ride. Well said about the anticipated nightmare.

[davidh]

I find this whole thing confusing. does it mean we will continue to be able to get a train from denmark hill direct to victoria or not. I can't be bothered with changing platforms

[Jeremy]

*

[Undisputedtruth]

Yes, you can go straight from Denmark Hill to Victoria but not on Sunday, after 7pm or before 7am. Say goodbye to your social life in central London.

The frequency of Victoria trains are reduced from 4 trains to 2 trains per hour.

Denmark Hill will lose their direct connection to London Bridge after 8 December.

[Otta]

"Yes, you can go straight from Denmark Hill to Victoria but not on Sunday, after 7pm or

before 7am. Say goodbye to your social life in central London."

Surely if something was worth going to in central london, post 7pm on a Sunday, you'd go anyway and use one of the numerous other routes home.

[Undisputedtruth]

I don't know about you, Otta, but I rather prefer spend more time socialising than travelling.

Howver, your post did gave me an idea. An outer London radial pub crawl similar to that of the Circle line.