Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)

[dresswaves]

Renata Hamvas Wrote:

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> People have been behaving so irresponsibly, not

> only in Dulwich park, but Peckham Rye Park,

> Nunhead Cemetery and other open spaces in the

> Borough. In order to protect residents, this has

> resulted in closure from tonight.

> Renata

From Southwark Twitter An Hour ago it is playgrounds & other areas within parks that are being locked. For the moment the parks are still open.

[Sue]

dresswaves Wrote:

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> From Southwark Twitter An Hour ago it is

> playgrounds & other areas within parks that are

> being locked. For the moment the parks are still

> open.

I really can't understand, given the situation in parks at the weekend, how those parks which could be locked are being allowed to stay open (I understand some spaces can't be locked, obviously).

Somebody "at the top" aka the PM needs to be taking a much harder stance on this (and other things), not just giving "guidance".

In my opinion.

[se22cat]

Keep clear of the builder working on a house halfway up Archdale Road - just went past on the way to the chemist & the retard hawked up and spat repeatedly on the pavement in front of me. An exchange of words was had outside of spitting range.

[NewWave]

doody Wrote:

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> Also, groups of 3 or 4, walking abreast taking up

> half the path- please drop into single file to

> facilitate distance when passing others. And

> remind your cycling children to keep their

> distance as well.

So glad someone other than me has flagged this.

today in Dulwich park joggers and cyclists not following the minimum 2 meter rule and even worse on the pavements outside people jogging two abreast (if you must run two abreast and you see a walker on the pavement have a quick glance and if the road is clear run into the road in order to pass the walker it only takes a moment) and leaving it to me to be the one to step off the pavement into the road in order to avoid them running either side of me very closely.

And also not ideal adults cycling on the pavements -not everyone is agile and able to dodge out of the way and why should they?

[Sue]

I don't know who dFinal Touch are, but they appear to be doing some work on a house in my road, and there were four of them all talking extremely closely together as they were leaving today.

I did take a picture, or thought I had, but it is not there (new phone, quite possibly I didn't actually take it, as the camera is unfamiliar).

[Tipsyleprachauns]

..

[Sue]

Oh dear.

But if they can't keep apart from each other when working, they shouldn't be continuing to do that work, surely?

[montassa]

Renata - you mentioned the parks were closing.. ?

Look all open to me..

[KidKruger]

I'm not sure Renata controls what Southwark parks dept do.

I think she was just passing on what Southwark had said will happen.

But Southwark seem (for now) to be allowing parks open but playground/swingparks closed.

So people can self-distance and still be outside once a day,

[sjsl]

Official communications have been pretty confusing, so understandable that some people thought the actual parks were closing, rather than areas inside. I hope they keep them open, assuming we continue being allowed out for exercise, it's much easier to keep your distance in a park than on a pavement!

[janmac]

Although the eager finger-pointers think they are doing a public service by policing the new public health guidance, they are actually destructive of civil society, trust and our ability to talk to each other and negotiate the incredibly drastic new ways of living. We have to accept that there will not be 100% compliance, that's the case with any law or rule. It doesn't mean we all have a meltdown and start lynching people.

[KidKruger]

If the deadly disease can be spread by being closer than 2m to one another, and some people (one example may be joggers) are knowingly getting closer to strangers just to maintain their 'rights', then it's fair to call them out.

...before keeling over from the illness, or passing on the disease to an elderly relative.

It's reasonable to not expect 100% compliance (which is predictable), but not reasonable to be expected to just allow people to blatantly risk your health !

It would appear to be a serious matter from what I'm aware so far.

[janmac]

But there is a big difference between generally trying to reduce physical contact to minimise risk across the whole population and regarding every possible encounter as toxic and deadly. The chances of contracting it from a passing runner or cyclist are ridiculously tiny compared to all the surface-touching we do with our families or in shops.

[KidKruger]

I guess I'd say "is the 2m distance recommended BS or reasonable" ?

If BS, then hey let's party like it don't matter.

If reasonable (and accurate) then pls keep away from me to that minimum distance !

Just as we can't expect 100% of people to abide by recommendations, we also can't expect 100% of people to be blas? about ensuring the recommended distances are maintained on a personal level.

In my view, debating chances of X or Y likelihood when we have clear guidelines is sort of moot, no ?

Personally I'd rather err on the side of caution and I don't feel like I'm destroying civil society by telling joggers to back off (which I haven't !) OR mentioning on forum threads where such things are being discussed.

[janmac]

shouting at people and condemning people has its own negative consequences. We have to be able to function as a society during and after this health crisis.

[womanofdulwich]

We could pin A4 sheets on ourselves indicating we want a 2m distance maintained,

[KidKruger]

janmac Wrote:

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> shouting at people and condemning people has its

> own negative consequences. We have to be able to

> function as a society during and after this health

> crisis.

I haven't seen anyone shouting at anyone else, or even intending to, have you ?

Negative consequences of not ensuring safe distance are surely significant too, isn't that what we're all being advised ?!

WOD - lol, I may actually try that. But alas, I expect I'll have to provide tape measures and a 30min induction as to what it's for !!!

[NewWave]

womanofdulwich Wrote:

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> We could pin A4 sheets on ourselves indicating we

> want a 2m distance maintained,

Shouldn't everyone want that?

Aside from my partner I have dilligently maintained a minimum 2m distance between myself and others.

This is to protect them as much as myself.

Please be mindful whether on a bike walking or jogging this illness can kill.

[Siduhe]

janmac Wrote:

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> shouting at people and condemning people has its

> own negative consequences. We have to be able to

> function as a society during and after this health

> crisis.

For me that's exactly the point - people should be taking steps to put society first, and their own personal preferences second. I wouldn't dream of calling out someone who is taking reasonable steps to keep 2m apart from others while jogging in the park, but someone who is running around without any care of the people around them, expecting them to get out of his/her way is something else. And I'm absolutely fine with someone taking a different view of the risks to their own health of the coronavirus, but much less fine with someone who knowingly chooses to put other people's health at risk, so as not to be inconvenienced in their daily life. That's what functioning as a society means to me at least.

[NewWave]

Siduhe Wrote:

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> janmac Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > shouting at people and condemning people has

> its

> > own negative consequences. We have to be able

> to

> > function as a society during and after this

> health

> > crisis.

>

> For me that's exactly the point - people should be

> taking steps to put society first, and their own

> personal preferences second. I wouldn't dream of

> calling out someone who is taking reasonable steps

> to keep 2m apart from others while jogging in the

> park, but someone who is running around without

> any care of the people around them, expecting them

> to get out of his/her way is something else. And

> I'm absolutely fine with someone taking a

> different view of the risks to their own health of

> the coronavirus, but much less fine with someone

> who knowingly chooses to put other people's health

> at risk, so as not to be inconvenienced in their

> daily life. That's what functioning as a society

> means to me at least.

Bravo well said!

[first mate]

Siduhe Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> janmac Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > shouting at people and condemning people has

> its

> > own negative consequences. We have to be able

> to

> > function as a society during and after this

> health

> > crisis.

>

> For me that's exactly the point - people should be

> taking steps to put society first, and their own

> personal preferences second. I wouldn't dream of

> calling out someone who is taking reasonable steps

> to keep 2m apart from others while jogging in the

> park, but someone who is running around without

> any care of the people around them, expecting them

> to get out of his/her way is something else. And

> I'm absolutely fine with someone taking a

> different view of the risks to their own health of

> the coronavirus, but much less fine with someone

> who knowingly chooses to put other people's health

> at risk, so as not to be inconvenienced in their

> daily life. That's what functioning as a society

> means to me at least.

Exactly this!

[KidKruger]

Yup.

Siduhe Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> janmac Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > shouting at people and condemning people has

> its

> > own negative consequences. We have to be able

> to

> > function as a society during and after this

> health

> > crisis.

>

> For me that's exactly the point - people should be

> taking steps to put society first, and their own

> personal preferences second. I wouldn't dream of

> calling out someone who is taking reasonable steps

> to keep 2m apart from others while jogging in the

> park, but someone who is running around without

> any care of the people around them, expecting them

> to get out of his/her way is something else. And

> I'm absolutely fine with someone taking a

> different view of the risks to their own health of

> the coronavirus, but much less fine with someone

> who knowingly chooses to put other people's health

> at risk, so as not to be inconvenienced in their

> daily life. That's what functioning as a society

> means to me at least.

[janmac]

I don't have a problem with social pressure, but there's a point where it tips over into a moral crusade (albeit wearing the clothes health). If we go out and about scouting for 'transgressors' we ruin our own time in the fresh air, ramp up the fear levels (being outside the risk of transmission IS going to be lower than the risk of closer contact) and undermine our capacity to tolerate the more normal risks of everyday life.

[doody]

I honestly don't understand your point, Janmac. The guidelines are clear, we all want to continue to exercise in the outdoors safely. We have every right to object to those who are selfishly or thoughtlessly endangering others. I don't believe anyone is going out to police " transgressers", but if you encounter it whilst doing your best to follow the 2m advice, there is every serious reason to point this out to the people concerned, and/or flag it up for discussion. Maybe some people have simply not clearly understood the issue, may read this thread and be glad to change their behaviour outdoors. Win/ Win, I say. In any case, if people continue to disregard the advice, we will shortly be in complete lockdown, end of...

[heartblock]

Stay 2 metres apart, that is not a huge inconvenience for people. My friends who are health workers have a higher risk of catching and dying of Covid-19, so stop being selfish and do the right thing. On a more positive note.. if you do know a health worker, please cook them a meal to safely pick up in a cleaned plastic tub to microwave. They will appreciate the support.