Peckham Rye Zippos Circus & Protest

[silverfox]

Soya, you are correct. I've never met Tom, whom, I've no doubt, is a fine, well-intentioned individual.

Despite your misinterpretation of Tom's post

"...a gent with a passion for animal rights starts a thread that seems to be a discussion about the policing of a small protest. He gives further context, explaining his point of view reasonably enough, and even implies that his primary reason for having being at the protest was to talk to the organizers..."

However, Tom clearly states:

"...The protest was against the treatment of horses (making them stand on two legs gives them hip and tendon damage / pain).

I presume I don't need to state the obvious to you that man's mastery of the horse has coincided with human progress.

More recently, the Olympics featured Dressage, demonstrating how clever horses can be - what they can learn with patient training and, if you've never had the chance, have a look at the Spanish Riding School Of Vienna.

If you and Tom see of the role of horses as animals to be admired while chomping grass in fields, then you do horses a disservice.

Zippos Circus brings untold pleasure to thousands of children each year, which Tom's protest, if thought through, would potentially deprive many urban-dwelling children the opportunity to see just how clever and versatile horses are.

[Soya]

...and now I fear you're misrepresenting me.

I'm not seeking to defend the original poster's view on animal rights. In fact, I have mentioned nothing about my position on the subject. I wonder if you made an assumption based on my username? I tried to sign up for the site with my real name, but it was taken so I cast my eyes around my desk and put soya because I had soy milk sitting in front of me (I'm allergic to dairy. I know, it's an astoundingly original way to come up with a username). I have no thoughts on horses being used in circuses.

I don't believe I have misrepresented the OP's first post. He didn't appear to be asking for a discussion on animal rights - he wanted to know whether it seemed that the police presence at the protest was a little heavy-handed. Whilst discussion might be hard to avoid (it is an emotive subject), that was not his primary purpose in starting this thread.

What I called you out on was what I perceived to be rudeness on your part, telling a stranger on the Internet to get a life. For all you know, Tom might be a philanthropist, a charity worker who has made a difference to the lives of hundreds, the surgeon who saved a family member's life. He might have tap-danced the Macarena naked on top of the forth plinth in Trafalgar Square. He might not have done any of these things. Either way, I do not believe it's called for to tell him to get a life simply because this is the internet.

I thought the EDF was supposed to be an online accompaniment to a real-life community that people have worked hard to build up. Not everybody uses it for that purpose, true, but that doesn't mean that you should use it to insult somebody you'd probably shake hands with if you were blindly introduced down the pub.

[silverfox]

True Soya. I stand admonished. Sorry Tom.

[steveo]

Insulting people in pubs. God forfend

[v_the_gelfling]

Thanks for bringing attention to the Circus, I hadn't realised it was there and have just booked tickets to go :-)

[KidKruger]

How DO you get best deal on tickets - go down there in person or Internet ?

[v_the_gelfling]

I got a discount on the internet, got a few ? off

[KidKruger]

Can you share link please ?

Wanna go this week.

[v_the_gelfling]

http://www.zipposcircus.co.uk/

Click on 'Click here to join our internet club and buy discount tickets for Peckham'

[KidKruger]

Thanks a lot gelf.

[TE44]

A couple of weeks ago I went with family to Jerry cottles wow circus in Paignton, there were no animals and kids had an amazing time. I think its a nice way for children to be introduced to the circus.

[steveo]

What about cruelty to clowns?

[Loz]

Clowns in ED? Has anyone texted all the schools in a wild panic yet?

[LondonMix]

I agree, alligator is delicious :)

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I've not eaten horse. I've always wanted to, but

> never had the chance. I don't see the difference

> between eating horse and cow or sheep.

>

> I've eaten kangaroo and caiman alligator (Brazil),

> though. I'd happy recommend them both. I've also

> eaten piranha, but they just taste like any fish,

> really.

[Chippy Minton]

silverfox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Tom Micklewright, get a life

How ironic!

Tell someone you've never met before to get a life via an internet forum at 10:15pm on a Sunday night and then go on to post seven more times within the next two hours on subjects including consumer rights, the circus and dog poo!

[Lita]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19eBAfUFK3E

[Loz]

Blimey, Lita. Do you really think I am putting aside over an hour to sit through that monotone lecture??

[DJKillaQueen]

The film has nothing to do with the circus either. No-one denies animal cruelty exists. Many of us just don't see it existing anywhere at Zippo's circus.

[silverfox]

Chippy Minton Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> silverfox Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Tom Micklewright, get a life

>

> How ironic!

>

> Tell someone you've never met before to get a life

> via an internet forum at 10:15pm on a Sunday night

> and then go on to post seven more times within the

> next two hours on subjects including consumer

> rights, the circus and dog poo!

Thanks for keeping count for me Chippy. maybe we should both get a life

[Saffron]

OP

There was a group of 6 police men with a van. They were all very friendly - however our freedom of speech amounted to:

- no banners - no pictures - protesting in an area away from the entrance in a 5 metre by 5 metre space - the threat of instant arrest if a member of public complained about us / said they had been harassed or disturbed.

Jessie Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sounds to me like the police presence was a bit

> far fetched.

Perhaps the police presence is considered necessary and adequate in this instance b/c the venue is particulary sensitive, in so far as that there are children attending the event.

> Not that I agree with the cause of

> protest per se but we're allowed surely to voice

> opposition?

Indeed people were allowed to voice opposition, but in a sensitive and controlled manner considering the nature of the event including children.

What kind of person actually wants to harass and disturb families with children?

Again, if you really want to do something to help animals (and families), apply your time and money here or similar to help working horses in developing countries: http://www.wspa.org.uk/wspaswork/workinghorses/ . Celia Hammond animal shelter is also particularly overrun with animals, especially as it's "kitten season". Instead of wasting time protesting outside the circus in front of children, spend an hour volunteering at the shelter where you will instantly be making a difference to the lives of animals.

[Huguenot]

Soya, just for clarification, Tom M has been around for a long time. Click on his username and you can see his contributions over the years.

What you will see is that he's not averse to using misinformation and underhand behaviour to try and get his way. If he can't persuade people through debate and insight, he'll try and limit their freedoms by targeting suppliers. The circus is just another one.

The ban on images and placards was no doubt part of this, on long established form the protestors would have intended to use images unrelated to the circus or their animal welfare strategies in order to smear it as a cruel abuser of animals. They would have used shocking images because that's what they do - and as Tom so well knows, the truth can be damned.

Tom, bless his cotton socks, is not expressing an opinion, he's revealing an agenda that needs careful oversight to ensure he doesn't overstep the bounds of reasonable society.

[Huguenot]

Just to avoid confusion, he posts under more than one name. Here's the other one: http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/profile.php?20,21608

I'm sure he'll have a perfectly reasonable argument for why he is trying to avoid a connection to threads where he was exposed for subterfuge, but I have suspicions that are probably closer to the mark!

[Loz]

I must say though, Hugo, that providing the banners were not using poor taste imagery or language, I can't justify the police banning their use. Seems rather draconian to me. Tom may be barking up the wrong tree, but he has every right to be... erm... barking.

[TillieTrotter]

Agree with you Loz.

[Huguenot]

Agreed Loz, you can see the content of this group's banners here:

http://www.captiveanimals.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/demo1.png

They're nothing to do with Zippo's Circus and nothing to do with horses. They're sensationalist depictions of badly abused animals elsewhere (original source unknown).

So were the police right to stop this deliberate, offensive campaign of misinformation, misrepresentation and smear?

Yeah, I reckon so.