Scotland - Independence Referundum

[TE44]

I don't believe SNP are trusted in Scotland, think its a case of the best

out of a bad bunch. I'm hoping if its a yes, some ofthe people who have become involved

will continue to follow, and be involved in the changes that come.most people I know believe it

may be hard, but also feel there is a chance for people to come together and actually prectice

creating a democracy. who knows what may happen, only time woud tell.

[Otta]

I agree about SNP/UKIP, but I think the difference is that SNP have done things like free prescriptions and no student fees, which are the big vote winners, and which UKIP would not do.

[????]

Emotionally it's the same mindset not political/policy.

[StraferJack]

Will England leaving the UK be a political or emotional decision?

editd because I'm a eeejit - that should have been EU obviously, not UK

[????]

the UK?

[StraferJack]

good God Smith, get a grip

sorry, I'll try again

"Will England leaving the EU be a political or emotional decision?"

but you already knew that was the question (I hope)

[????]

it depends.....but right now UKIPs position is an emotive one IMO and mirrored by the SNP. "We are better off alone, just us"

[Earl Aelfheah]

Apparently Brown has just made an amazing speech which is going to change everything (sounds highly improbable I'll grant you). Anyone seen / heard it?

[StraferJack]

But there has LONG been talk of the UK leaving the EU right?

The Conservatives (or a large portion of them anyway) advocate this and many UK voters would back them. And this has been the case long before Scotland referendum

So would that be political or emotional if it was to become policy?

as for ""We are better off alone, just us""

does the "just us" mean " we will be better off if it's just us alone" or "just us who will be better off" ?

[El Pibe]

if i was being pedantic, given the inadequcies of politicians, economists, polemicists, sociologists and analysts at having the foggiest idea at the correlation between policy and result and evenworse at predicting the future results, I'd posit that there is no difference between the political and the emotional.

But yes, i think most going for the EU exit are ideologically/emotionally driven than objectrively so, but then of course they'd say that they are objective and anyone hoping to stay in the EU is driven by ideology/emotion/fear.

As for the cornish thing earlier, utterly ridiculous, but if it happens then the plunge into balkanisation will headlong!!

[El Pibe]

looked for it on beeb and enjoyed the juxtaposition of the top 2 stories

1: Mass rallies mark referendum climax

2: Err on a G-spot

[TE44]

http://labourlist.org/2014/09/gordon-browns-barnstorming-speech-in-defence-of-the-union/

heres gordon browns speech to the no voters.

[TE44]

oops wrong speech, sorry all sound the same

[civilservant]

going back to the voting rights of Scottish MPS in Westminster (west Lothian question), the issue becomes a lot simpler and even a non-issue.

one consequence of Scotland leaving the UK would be that the 59 Scottish seats at Westminster will disappear or be subsumed into the Scottish Parliament. Its only a question of when that happens

[Jeremy]

I really think Cameron has done an abysmal job of promoting the 'no' vote. He just sounds so bloody desparate.

If I was Scottish, I'd probably be wondering why the govt seemed so desperate to keep Scotland in the union.

[Otta]

I think Cameron going up there has actually done a fantastic job for the Yes vote.

[Louisa]

I reckon Cameron et al know something about a $hit load more of yet to be drilled for oil in the North Sea. Can't see why else he would be so desperate to keep the jocks happy? It surely benefits the tories if scotland leaves the union anyway doesn't it?

Louisa.

[JohnL]

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Apparently Brown has just made an amazing speech

> which is going to change everything (sounds highly

> improbable I'll grant you). Anyone seen / heard

> it?

Saw it in work - No Sound - he was emotional though -

and a few of us said it looked like he was at his best.

[????]

I dunno, maybe just maybe, he thinks 300 years of joint history shouldn't be thrown away*

*added to which he doesn't want to go down as the PM who lost it, and it'll almost certainly cost him his job

..but cyncism aside I think it's possible that many tories aren't just weighing up the advantages getting rid of Scotland will give them in a GE

[????]

StraferJack Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> But there has LONG been talk of the UK leaving the

> EU right?

>

> The Conservatives (or a large portion of them

> anyway) advocate this and many UK voters would

> back them. And this has been the case long before

> Scotland referendum -

er, they don't (yet) and those that largely do this on a fuzzy 'we're different to Europe' which is pretty interchangeable with 'we're different to England (Or London/Westminster) and there's not much difference really.

Plus the EU is a 50ish year old arrangement which we've been part of for 40 years with diverse languages etc etc not a 300 year old plus union

>

> So would that be political or emotional if it was

> to become policy?

>

> as for ""We are better off alone, just us""

>

> does the "just us" mean " we will be better off if

> it's just us alone" THIS BIT or "just us who will be better

> off" ?

[JohnL]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I reckon Cameron et al know something about a $hit

> load more of yet to be drilled for oil in the

> North Sea. Can't see why else he would be so

> desperate to keep the jocks happy? It surely

> benefits the tories if scotland leaves the union

> anyway doesn't it?

>

> Louisa.

Alistair Carmichael (MP for Northern isles) says Shetland

may gain independence from Scotland - if they vote more than

60% No.

There is a new well west of Shetland

and the Guardian denies it :)

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/16/conspiracy-theories-scots-government-oilfield-shetland

[????]

It might be a first for me but that Guardian article is spot on and why, when I weigh it up in my mind, I think I fall on the side of regreting the fact that the Internet was invented (just) or certainly the Social Media side of it

[TE44]

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I reckon Cameron et al know something about a $hit

> load more of yet to be drilled for oil in the

> North Sea. Can't see why else he would be so

> desperate to keep the jocks happy? It surely

> benefits the tories if scotland leaves the union

> anyway doesn't it

>

> Louisa.

The wood review on uks oil.

http://www.woodreview.co.uk/

[uncleglen]

My son thinks it's some kind of reverse psychology and that he really wants shot of them!

[numbers]

"Small mindness to me - don't see huge emotional differences in the outcomes that the SNP and UKIP seek. Little englanders and Little scotlanders."

^totally agree with this.

My theory is that Eck accuses the no side of doing the very things that he does himself:

Bullying and blustering? = exactly what he does

That the offer from the 3 main parties is a load of nothing? = exactly what he's offering, with no chance of paying for it.

The Scottish Government/Holyrood already have the power to raise income tax by 3p so why didn't they do it to help the NHS? All they do is reiterate 'scaremongering', 'negative campaign' and 'Westminster's fault'.

Someone I greatly admire has advised, 'just be stoical about it, there'll be big changes either way which might be good for us' but I don't feel like that. Like most I know, I feel unsettled, its been hugely divisive.

I don't think its a good idea to offer yet more incentives to Scotland. Why haven't they used the extra tax raising powers that already exist? No wonder the rest of the union is feeling disgruntled.

'free' prescriptions have not helped the truly poor in society (that has always been there for them so they haven't seen a benefit, unlike others).

The Clair oil field was discovered in the 70s, so nothing new. Now up for sale. Interest in the west of Shetlands has been going on for donkeys years. Of course, the yes campaign have pooh-poohed comments by Sir Ian Wood, so hey, they must be right. Rather listen to them than someone with 40+yrs experience in the industry. I could go on but won't.