Dog attack in Dulwich Park this afternoon

[Jeremy]

littlelau - I think walking your dog off the lead is rather selfish. All animals are unpredictable to a certain extent, and a dog like a staffie is capable of causing very serious injury. You also have to take into account the feelings of people who may not particularly like dogs, and would be intimidated by a bull breed dog not on a lead.

There is really no excuse for this behaviour, it's pure self indulgence.

[BecsBex]

Jeremy, you obviously haven't taken in a word she said. Her dog is not a threat. Being a staffy doesn't mean it's constantly teetering on the verge of snapping; or no moreso than any other trained dog. Your comment was selfish and unfair. It's as ridiculous as saying "statistically, people in X minority or from X background or who have X skin colour or whatever else X are the perpetrators of crime more often than those who aren't any of those Xs, therefore people in this category shouldn't be allowed out after dark." It's not the BREED - it is the owners of the dog that determine whether the dog will be dangerous. There are actually plenty of yappy little terriers in Dulwich Park who become snappy to the point of aggression but I doubt you'd pick them out automatically and call their owners selfish for having their particular breeds of dog off the lead.

Likewise there are some lovely staffs that frequent DP and neither they nor their owners deserve to be treated with the ignorance, presumption and unfairness that you've just displayed. I think you're an idiot, frankly. And it was my dog that was attacked in the first place, btw.

Littlelau, I think I've met the lady you mentioned. Was she on a bicycle? There is lady with 2 rescue staffs who I've met in DP and in the summer she was on her bike in the park. The two dogs (and the owner) are lovely. :)

I have an idea. Let's make everyone considering owning a dog or raising a human child get a license. That'll basically solve all the world's problems.

[BecsBex]

To clarify, I'm talking about having them off lead in the park. All dogs should be on a lead when they're not at home/in a park or designated outside space, etc etc. Just like children. Er - I mean...

[littlelau]

Jeremy

The fact that you have chose to pick up on one aspect of my post is pathetic!!

I do walk my dog on a lead when walking on the street as i said when in the park if i see another dog i put mine on a lead also if i see small children i do the same as he might seem scary to a small child but as i said in my earlier post when he is off the lead he walks to heal and i don't let him go running off miles ahead. I always take other people in to consideration shame some people don't do the same with me!

But then you don't receive some of the abuse i do when my dog is on the lead! Also in the park should a dog not have a little run and if you have read both my posts you would have read it was my fianc? that lost his finger and my Staffie that has been the victim of dog attacks

So are you saying only my dog and bull dog breeds should be put on a lead or all dogs??? And further more do you have a dog?

May i also add my dog lives with and has been brought up with 6 children i got him when he was 8 weeks old and he turned 8 years old yesterday!!!!

I think you comments is both ignorant and ridiculous!! And just to clarify it's NOT pure self indulgence I am a very responsible dog owner.

[littlelau]

Hi Bex

Thank you at least you have bothered to read my whole post rather than like Jeremy taking one point and focusing solely on that one thing.

When met the lady she was walking not on a bike but i would think its the same lady she is lovely and her dogs are great.

How is Tilly??

[bonniebird]

Dogs need to be allowed to run around in a park, yes that includes Staffies Jeremy! littlelau is far from selfish, your the selfish one Jeremy. If you look at the dog attacks that happen, most of them happen at home, these dogs are probably NOT excersised or stimulated and are bored out of there brains. I would like the owners of these dogs to be kept in a room with no tv, books, music, games or whatever floats there boat, they wouldn't last a few hours without getting bored, so why should there dogs be treated like that? Running, playing with other dogs is the key. To say what you said is rediculous, I am sick to death of people on this forum going on about dogs, they

ARE mans best friend for God's sake, they do much more good than harm and like I have said before, there are around 10 million dogs in this country and everytime 1 thing happens, its all dogs should be kept on a lead! Boring beyond belief.... I would love a Staffy and if I do ever rescue one, it will be trained, socialised, excersised OFF LEAD and woe betide anyone who gives me a mouthfull about it, just saying!

[Jeremy]

Dogs off lead in the park - fine.

Dogs off lead on the street - selfish. You have to respect the fact that not everyone likes dogs.

I apologise for any misunderstanding, but to me your post was not clear.

[bonniebird]

YES Jeremy I agree 100% dogs off lead on street VERY selfish and out of order, it looked like you were saying that the Staffy should not be let off in the park, very cocky of owners I think when they do that! And all dog lovers should think that not everybody loves dogs, I don't get it but ;)

[littlelau]

Jeremy

I do still think you should not have just picked up and focussed on one aspect of my post without actually considering all the other points I made and what I have been through myself but each to their own as I said I do have my dog on a lead when I'm walking him on the street!

In your post you weren't very clear at all it was more like an attack! I am responsible and I do take into consideration other peoples feelings and the fact that people might not like or be scared of dogs I if anyone should know what its like to be scared of a dog attacking after what I have witnessed and been though with my own dog and fianc?.

Jeremy do you have a dog??

[littlelau]

@Bonniebird

Thank you for seeing that i am not selfish I'm just trying to raise awareness about what good dogs staffies can be and that this stigma that they have attached is not true at the end of the day its down to the owners!

I hope you do re-home a staffie one day they make great little companions, wonderful pets are loyal and always eager to learn.

[first mate]

littlelau,

actually you go one step further than many dog owners in that you have said you even put your dog on a lead in the park around certain other dogs and children. So, you are a model owner in my book!

[littlelau]

@First Mate

Thank you very much for your kind comment I feel it is my duty as a dog owner to be responsible and to make people & other dog owners feel as much at ease as possible.

[Jeremy]

littlelau - no I don't have a dog. But I do quite like them, usually.

I did read all of your 9:38PM post, but didn't actually see the previous post. That post (taken in isolation) to me sounded as though you were advocating walking dogs off the lead generally. That is why my response was a little aggressive. Apologies for the misunderstanding.

[Johnson11]

There seems to be more and more dogs off their leads over here now. I have two dogs that I trust with my life but you can't leave it to chance that they won't do something you least expect?

[josian]

aquarius moon Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So glad Tilly is ok.

>

> Staffs are great people dogs, but dreadful with

> other dogs.

>

> As everyone on here probably knows, I love all

> animals.

>

> However, I do have a problem with staffs.

>

> After one of my small dogs was attacked by one 2

> years ago, I'm too scared to take them to any

> park.

>

> If I'm out walking & see one off-lead, I

> instinctively pick mine up.

>

> If you look at every dog/cat attack, it nearly

> always involves a staff.

>

> Yet nothing is being done.

Have to disagree with your statement that "Staffs are dreadful with other dogs" and "If you look at every dog/cat attack, it nearly always involves a staff"... that is genralising!

Flippant remarks like this give Staffs a bad name.. I have a 5 year old Big Blue Staffy who is excellent with both people and other dogs, he is my 3rd Staff and all my Staffs have been excellent natured dogs. I have him off the lead in Peckham Rye park all the time, you cant miss him he is the one with a big orange rubber stick in his mouth and accomapnied by two Jack Russells...feel free to come over and meet him and see just how lovely he is.

Here are some interesting statistics:

A recent study carried out on 6,000 dogs and their owners found out 33 of the most aggressive dogs, and also those which have good temperaments. The study involved collecting data from two different groups. The first group consisted of 11 different breeds and the second was an online survey mainly involving owners, including 33 breeds. The conclusions from both groups were similar. It looked at the different types of aggression such as towards other dogs, towards strangers and towards owners. Some of the results were surprising, below are the top ten most aggressive breed:

1. Dachshunds

2. Chihuahua

3. Jack Russell

4. Australian Cattle Dog

5. Cocker Spaniel

6. Beagle

7. Border Collie

8. Pit Bull Terrier

9. Great Dane

10. English Springer Spaniel

No Staffordshire terriers on there, come on people give the Staffs a break and point fingers at the owners not the dogs

[Take Note]

phew....no Bull Terriers on there. Softies, that's why ; )

[lameduck]

there are NO bad dogs

only there ARE some bloody bad dog owners

i hope you and your dear dog are ok

please tell the police the next dog or child may not be so lucky

lynne

[fuzzyboots]

As the relatively new joint owner of a rescue staffy/lab cross, it makes me really sad to read the scaremongering comments about staffies. Our girl is 8 and if you see us walking her, she is the golden red dog with a stubby tail and wearing a muzzle at all times and always on the lead.

She is a beautiful, loving dog, microchipped, neutered etc and she has had a really tough history. She is terrified of walking sticks and crutches and she sometimes flinches and crouches if our feet go unexpectedly near her.

Yes she was mistreated and neglected and she bit the man who took her tail off with a garden strimmer and slashed her leg open. Which dog wouldn't?!despite the mistreatment she has experienced, and of all the dogs available for adoption, we were approved to have her, with two kids (10 and 7) at home. It is very very difficult to find a rescue dog that charities will home where there are young children. That is what a soft poppet she is. :)

But she looks tough. Very muscular, quite staffy faced and of course the muzzle doesn't help. She isn't allowed out in public without her muzzle or off the lead until 13/11/13. We cannot wait. She is very well behaved - we are working on new tricks with her to keep her occupied since the poor darling can't get the exercise and play with other dogs that she wants and needs until then.

The law states that dogs should not be off lead on public highways. I feel frustrated with owners ignoring this; it is perfectly likely that a fox, squirrel or cat in the vicinity could encourage a dog to charge across a road or knock pedestrians flying - even the most well behaved dog is capable of that. I guess I am very mindful of observing other people walking their dogs - partly in order to learn what works and what doesn't work, etc., but also because our girl doesn't like wearing her muzzle in public as it restricts normal dog interactions.Owners who say their dog is safe offlead may well be very experienced owners who know their dog , but none of us is above the law and it is irresponsible to ignore the law because you believe you are better than it and to set this example to less experiencd owners.

Any dog that causes fear, let alone injury, is at serious risk of seizure and destruction, be it a puppy or a golden oldie with an unblemished history. I accept that there are people who don't want to know about dogs, let alone love them, and I am fully in favour of expensive licences an a compulsory annual health check (rather like an MOT!) and compulsory microchipping and liability insurance for dogs. That way, the less responsible owners could be more easily identified and their dogs removed to safety.

[aquarius moon]

Josian,

My post was referring to keeping my own small dogs (shih tzu x yorkies) safe from attack by other dogs. It has nothing to do with dog aggression in general.

Yes, the top 7 aggressive dogs on your list include other toy breeds, but my point is, if one of my dogs was attacked or got into a fight with any of these, they would be able to hold their own/survive the attack.

If the same thing happened with No.8 on your list, or indeed a staffie, they could be killed.

[tiddles]

well done fuzzy boots for giving this poor dog a kind and loving home, i wish her and your family all the very best - I bet you can't wait to get that muzzle off! I agree with lameduck and littlau - it is down to the owners. I have met several staffies or staffie cross dogs who are utterly delightful and are happy to put up with my dogs determination to have a good sniff. Similarly, I know that not everyone likes a dog, so I make sure he doesn't run up to children however he loves it when they come over and give him a stroke. There are some complete gits out there who give certain breeds a bad name (and also never walk the poor things) but we must try to not to generalise - yes easy to say if you have not had a bad experience with a particular type of dog I know. If someone seems to be aware of their dog and their potential behaviour then it makes all the difference!

I think if we all respect the lead on/off areas that helps enormously. I would not walk my dog off the lead in the street as I know he would be off like a shot after whatever took his fancy!!

[puzzled]

I was walking my little jack russells in peckham rye park the other day. they were off lead and ambled past a woman without giving her a glance. she started screaming and jumping up and down.. she yelled st me: "Iam scared of dogs. I am scared of dogs." the dogs were 50 yards past her at this point. I asked why she thought I could solve her problem and that she should resolve her own issues as there were always many dogs in the park. honestly, I am considerate to other people's difficulties, but what the hell can I do about her. it is HER problem. the dogs were no threat

[nimby]

Were they in the lead only or dog free zone? If so then she has a right to complain. If not maybe she was just telling you hoping you might call the away from her and make sure they dont come near again. I know an Iraqi escapee who was tortured with dogs and cant help but freak if a dog comes near him. He sticks to the dog free/lead areas in the park. I don't think telling someone with a serious phobia of dogs to "Resolve their own issues" is at all helpful.

[davidh]

they were in the off lead area. she was hysterical even tho the dogs were nowhere near her and I DO think people should try to deal their own problems instead of unpleasantly involving passers-by. I am not a therapist and there are plenty who can help her

[tallulah71]

could not agree more.

[tiddles]

puzzled, I think you could have been a bit more sympathetic (I maybe misreading the conversation). When people are clearly scared of my dog, I have always just said not to worry I will put on the lead and take away = as nimby points out, there may be very deep rooted reasons for this hysteria. you and I know that our dogs won't hurt, however the person concerned will not or cannot overcome this. I also think it a bit unfair for people not to enjoy our lovely parks because they live in fear of what they 'may' encounter. If they meet enough people with non aggressive animals this may begin to gradually live their lives a little easier. I too had one lady get very shrieky and panicky with me when I was walking my dog on the lead, so I just said I wouldn't come anywhere near her and we would go on ahead away from her - yes a bit irritating to be honest but no point in winding her up even further.