London Overground line extension timetable

[Medley]

LondonMix - the Overground is not a tradeoff against the SLL, if that's what you were meaning.

Jeremy - Crossrail 2 has been around for years as an idea, the route is safeguarded. It's more about relieving capacity constraints than providing new routes. So it certainly won't be troubling south east London!

[LondonMix]

By a trade-off I simply mean that the impact of gaining the ELL while losing the SLL will have pros and cons for the wider community and might represent a net benefit despite certain specific commuters losing out.

[Reg Smeeton]

Sorry not to be adding to the list of moaners on here, but the new service actually looks ok to me, despite the fact that I have been a longstanding fan of the South London line. I reckon that on balance almost as many people will gain as will lose from the changes. Doom mongers who claimed it's 25 minutes plus to Clapham should look at the timetables again. It's 20 minutes max from Peckham Rye to Clapham Junction (16 minutes from Denmark Hill) and in the reverse direction the journey is actually only 15 or 16 minutes from Clapham to Peckham Rye.

The main loss is the service from Denmark Hill to London Bridge direct - now you have to change at Peckham Rye. As for Denmark Hill/Peckham Rye to Victoria - yes we're losing two trains per hour, but the way the trains have been scheduled in recent years, the slow and fast trains were always scheduled quite close to each other anyway (both ways) so it wasn't much different from two trains per hour.

And the revamped Denmark Hill station with lifts and ramps, which has come as part of the package, will be great for those with buggies etc.

[LondonMix]

Yes, I imagine if you're by Denmark Hill it might be faster to take the bus a couple of minutes down the road to East Dulwich station and get on a train to London Bridge rather than dealing with the transfer at Peckham (if you have a travel card so the cost isn't a problem). We'll have to wait and see how it all pans out!

[Jeremy]

The problem with buses is not just the journey time, but also the waiting time and the overall unpredictablilty.

[Peckhampam]

And the awful driving

[LondonMix]

Yes, during the rush hour I totally agree.

Jeremy Wrote:

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> The problem with buses is not just the journey

> time, but also the waiting time and the overall

> unpredictablilty.

[ratty]

Wow - just googled my journey to work post Dec 9th!

17 mins!

LIKE!

[craigyboy71]

stephen509 Wrote:

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> They may as well just extend the Victoria line.

> Would actually have good links in central london

> rather than this tosh.

or extending the Bakerloo line (E&C to Walworth Road to Camberwell to Denmark Hill etc.). One day....

[njc97]

To the people complaining about lack of trains after 7 and Sundays - isnt that just going back to the service we had prior to Thameslink building work (i.e. 3 years ago)?

[Bic Basher]

The thing about the Overground in general is that it's all about connections rather than taking you to a central London terminus.

A quick look of the new ELL stations that will benefit most PR and DH customers.

Clapham Junction - South West Trains into Waterloo, plus direct services to Southampton, Portsmouth, Reading etc, Southern to Victoria, East Croydon, Gatwick Airport, Surrey and Sussex, London Overground West London Line to Kensington Olympia, Shepherds Bush for Westfield, Willesden Junction etc.

Clapham High Street - Northern line.

Surrey Quays - London Overground connections to Crystal Palace, West Croydon and New Cross.

Canada Water - Jubilee line (quicker and CHEAPER journeys to Canary Wharf which no longer requires Zone 1)

Shadwell - DLR to Bank and a secondary back-up for Canary Wharf when the Jubilee has problems.

Whitechapel - District and Hammersmith and City lines. (Crossrail from 2019)

Where as now, you have to use Victoria or London Bridge to enter the tube system to get round central London, the ELL distributes those passengers away from the main NR terminals which at London Bridge especially needs a reduction of passengers once the major refurbishment works start.

[Lowlander]

Agree with the above with the exception of changing at Canada Water for Canary Wharf.

I usually change at London Bridge for the eastbound Jubilee line and it's possible to get the first train as many people get off in London Bridge. By Canada Water the train is rammed and people waiting have little chance of boarding. This will only get worse when the additional Overground services carrying people from Clapham Junction and stations east calls at Canada Water.

The price difference you highlighted (?3.70 via zone 1 vs ?1.50 via zone 2) will only encourage this.

[Jeremy]

Lowlander Wrote:

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> By Canada Water the train is rammed and

> people waiting have little chance of boarding.

This is also my experience - at least at peak time.

[Lowlander]

Yes if you can avoid Canada Water between 8 and 0915ish it's ok.

And the return journey is obviously easier - although no chance of getting a seat on the current Overground service via Forest Hill in the peak, and a guaranteed one at London Bridge.

[Bic Basher]

Lowlander Wrote:

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> Yes if you can avoid Canada Water between 8 and

> 0915ish it's ok.

>

> And the return journey is obviously easier -

> although no chance of getting a seat on the

> current Overground service via Forest Hill in the

> peak, and a guaranteed one at London Bridge.

If you avoid the West Croydon services during the peak, you have a better chance of a seat or at least bearable standing room on the Crystal Palace train which is 5 mins behind. Always wait near the end of the platform, everyone waits at the front which doesn't help.

Canada Water does have an issue in the morning peak where people cram for the one escalator down to the Jubilee platforms. My tip is to walk to the front of the platform, go up the escalator to the ticket hall and then back down which takes you towards the front of the Eastbound Jubilee line platform. The quick 2-3 min journey to Canary Wharf negates the need for a seat and extra cost of travelling via London Bridge.

Those Southern London Bridge trains via Forest Hill have improved thanks to passengers changing their journey patterns, along with 10 car services during the peak to West Croydon and at least 8 on the outer SLL via Crystal Palace. Passengers who use LB services via Peckham Rye after December 9th may also see a slight reduction in usage, although not straight away as they decide which way to travel.

[benevetts]

To the point about services being revised back to where VIC connections were before the Thameslink work. The thing that blindsided all our councillors was the withdrawal of Sunday services on the South Eastern line. Sadly they were all (with the exception of Renata Hamvas) also useless in terms of adding or coordinating support for the recent South Eastern or Thameslink consultations.

[TB2]

You forget also that at Shadwell the DLR takes you into Tower Gateway as well - great if you work around Fenchurch Street, and also direct to London City Airport. Clapham Junction also has Southern going up to Wembley Central, Watford Junction and Milton Keynes.

[Bic Basher]

I didn't mention Highbury and Islington as a connection either, mainly because it won't be of any advantage of getting into work via Central London, but it does have it's purposes. Victoria line up to Seven Sisters and Walthamstow without having to use Brixton or Vauxhall. First Capital Connect services up into Hertfordshire and parts of North London and London Overground connections. It can also be used as a long winded way of reaching Kings Cross St. Pancras.

[antantant]

Everyone seems to be focusing on the Jubilee line. As a Northern Line user, I reckon everyone from DH will change at Queens Road Peckham and continue to London Bridge on the ohter trains. Stuff changing for Clapham North, makes no sense.

Losing the South London Line is a disaster for me personally, as wifie works in Victoria (yes, victoria proper, as do thousands of others) and kiddo is at Nursery in Peckham. We lose half our trains to pick him up. If a train is cancelled, we'll miss closing time. We're totally dreading Dec to be honest.

[Bic Basher]

antantant Wrote:

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> Everyone seems to be focusing on the Jubilee line.

> As a Northern Line user, I reckon everyone from

> DH will change at Queens Road Peckham and continue

> to London Bridge on the ohter trains. Stuff

> changing for Clapham North, makes no sense.

It'll be a cheaper Oyster PAYG fare to change at Clapham North and the other tube/DLR connections than it is now. A trip to Morden will be considerably cheaper from here than it is currently.

[antantant]

Okay, I change it to "makes no sense for anyone with a travel card".

Really, Morden? I just want to get to Victoria.

[James Barber]

I agree with antantant.

People move to areas based on hobs and transport links and what they can afford. They put down routes and plan for the long term. Once kids in nursery, schools its harder to move and many who used to move for secondary schools are now choosing not to - probably from house selling issues, etc.

So buggering up the basis for many people living in the areas of Camberwell is shocking. Adding news services fine but not at the expense of closing existing services that were the basis for many people living in an area. It's bad for a community.

For those that benefit. You were happy to move to an area with existing services. Great they're even better for you but have some compassion for people such as antantant who may have to move to accomodate their preexisting lives in our areas.

[Bic Basher]

Excuse me Mr Barber, I've lived in ED ALL MY LIFE THANK YOU!!

I've been here when we had bugger all transport wise. I can remember waiting 30 mins for buses in LL, two trains an hour, nothing on Sundays and yet the moaning minnies on here are complaining that we're getting MORE TRAINS.

We now have a situation where those in the east of SE22 now have trains every 5 mins from FH and HOP, DH and PR are seeing their rail service and capacity improve by 50% in comparison with now with cheaper rail fares on Oyster which is much needed to help people find work away from South London in one of the poorest areas of Southwark.

Face the facts, we're never going to be North London where the Tube network was easier to build in comparison to the clay ridden ground we have down here.

While I have sympathy for antantant's situation, there are plenty of buses to Victoria from QRP.

If the so called politicians really gave a damn about the beloved SLL, more should have been done at Parliament to pressure the then Labour government and by Southwark which I recall at the time of the announcement was part of a Tory and wait for it LIB DEM coalition!

Sadly politics plays a role in the supposed simple role of getting people to work with both Labour and Tory Boris claiming credit for the East London line extension, yet as soon as it was clear the SLL wasn't going to be saved, nothing from the local politicians who are quick to take credit for anything positive.

[katgod]

Can I ask the experts here - when travelling from FH or PR on Overground and changing at Canada Water for the tube, should I be touching in and out on the pink 'interchange' machine to get the cheapest deal? Some people do some don't - I usually do but am not sure if I need to or not. Thanks

[Zebedee Tring]

The tunnel at the end of the Victoria Line runs some way between Brixton and Herne Hill, so it shouldn't be too difficult to extend the line at least to Herne Hill.

There have been proposals on and off for the last 80 years to extend the Bakerloo Line from the Elephant to Camberwell (and possibly Peckham) - the Camberwell extension proposals even appeared on some tube maps after WW2 (I believe). Why can't these plans be reactivated?