light the blue touch paper...

[lozzyloz]

I don't see the point of saying it either but there's nothing wrong with being black or white and being proud of it.

If I walk into a pub in Highbury and proudly shout out "I'm a Chelsea fan and proud of it!" You'd have to question my motives and what do you think the reaction would be? Would they understand my proudness and pat me on the back or think "You cocky Chelsea scum" and eject me from the pub?

However in same pub if I'd walked in and bought myself a pint, got talking to a few locals and after a while let it slip I'm a Chelsea fan, sure there's be some banter but also a lot more respect.

[atila the gooner]

lozzyloz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Why should someone's colour be something to be

> proud of as if it's a badge? Surely it's WHO you

> are. Then people would be less inclined to fight

> because somebody says that white is better than

> black or whatever. I don't feel my colour is

> something that I need to be proud of and say "Hey,

> look at me". But if I'm in a situation where a

> group are making their colour a reason to

> discriminate against me I feel uncomfortable. Same

> applies to religion, gender, creed, sexuality and

> football team.

I certainly don't wear my colour as a "badge" but I don't see why it would be ok for one sction of society to proclaim they are proud of their colour and not for another section. I am what I am and proud of it, an part of what I am is being white. I'm also proud of being a parent, that's not a "badge" and I'm proud of my Turkish Cypriot roots again that is not a "badge", and I don't see how saying I'm proud of these things would make another section of society feel discriminated against. But we are all entitled to our opinions.

[lozzyloz]

What exactly is involved in being White? Are there White things a black man can't do?

[Brendan]

Yeah, the ?Faliraki tan?

[atila the gooner]

lozzyloz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> What exactly is involved in being White? Are there

> White things a black man can't do?

I think you're missing the point here. I've not said that, I've asked if people think it's ok to say they are proud of being white in the same way black people are proud of being erm.......black. At what point did I hint or suggest that one section was unable to do things the other section couldn't. Please help me out here cos I don't see what you're getting at.

[Keef]

Like bob said, I'm neither proud or ashamed to be white. Don't think there is anything wrong with being proud, but I can't see why you would be.

Here's a proud group.

Black, Welsh and Proud

[mockney piers]

I nkow where you're coming from Atila, and there's no way you should be ashamed for being white.

And if you want to say your proud, that's great. I sure ain't going to complain.

I'm interested to know if anyone here would be offended.

My point, personally speaking, was there's nothing specifically about being white that I'm proud of, but that's just me really.

Thinking about it, if I'm not going to take personal responsibility and feel shame for Spain's devastation of the New World, the Inquisition, the bloodthirsty campaigns in The Low Countries, General Franco etc as they weren't really my fault, then can I take personal pride in Goya, Velazquez, Rodrigo, Flamenco, the Alhambra, the orange laden squares of Seville, The perennial underachievers that are the national football team?

I can take pride in my mum's Tortilla Espa?ola though, I'm pretty comfortable with that.

[lozzyloz]

Atila that is exactly the point. For either colour to go round shouting about being proud of their colour doesn't really achieve much positiveness.

We (you and me) share a lot more in common than the difference being the colour of our skin. I am also proud of being a parent, my ethnic origin, my background, my profession, the list goes on, but I don't have to wear the T-shirt, fly the banner or shout it out from the top of the roof.

What is more important IS BEING WHO YOU ARE.

I grew up with Jamaican and Guyanese families and it was only when I was around 12 or 13 I realised I wasn't black! I'm actually an olive brown but it wasn't the skin colour it was the culture.

I am what I am and proud of it, an part of what I am is being white.

[citizenED]

White pride is symbolised by Statues around Westminster (and other city centres), Paintings of Generals in the National Gallery and other such visual shows of power and authority. It's clearly demonstrated by all the white captains of industry, bishops, MP's and media moguls we see on the TV. There is no need for any specific act by any regular white person in the UK to celebrate white achievement.

This is not the case for other ethnicities.

[atila the gooner]

citizenED Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> White pride is symbolised by Statues around

> Westminster (and other city centres), Paintings of

> Generals in the National Gallery and other such

> visual shows of power and authority. It's clearly

> demonstrated by all the white captains of

> industry, bishops, MP's and media moguls we see on

> the TV. There is no need for any specific act by

> any regular white person in the UK to celebrate

> white achievement.

>

> This is not the case for other ethnicities.

I think this is what's known as a sweeping generalistaion. So nothing commendable, or worthy of civic pride has ever been achieved by a white person in the UK, ever, only by people from other ethnicities. I won't even begin to say I vehemently disagree, because it's not worth it. Let's just agree to disagree.

[mockney piers]

There are about ten trillion Mandela Bars in student unions nationwide.

At Keele we renamed ours in honour of Frankie Howerd after he died.

[Brendan]

Weigh that up against the amount of students nationwide who actually know cock all about South Africa and its history and you get ten trillion into about a dozen.

[mockney piers]

I did South African history for two terms in the second year of my history degree and I can pretty much say I know cock all about it too.

[citizenED]

careful, Atila, I didn't actually say or imply that. I'm simply pointing out that the vast amount of "achievement" in this country has been accomplished by white people and there are plenty of symbols of that "achievement".

[david_carnell]

To lighten the mood:

Black people love us!

[Brendan]

lol

[Jah Lush]

"Until the colour of a man's skin is of no more significance than the colour of his eyes then everywhere is war."

- Marcus Garvey

[snorky]

mockney piers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There are about ten trillion Mandela Bars in

> student unions nationwide.

> At Keele we renamed ours in honour of Frankie

> Howerd after he died.

So - where did you live Horwood, Lindsay or Hawthorns then ?

or a squalid little rented house in Silverdale ?

[atila the gooner]

Jah Lush Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "Until the colour of a man's skin is of no more

> significance than the colour of his eyes then

> everywhere is war."

>

> - Marcus Garvey

I think this is Emperor Haile Selassie speech Jah.

[mockney piers]

Lindsey (G block) as a Fresher, thence to the flats in Barnes.

It was mates what burned the one at the top down.

[snorky]

Lindsay was always handy for hitching cos of its proximity to Keele services

[Jah Lush]

I'm afraid you're wrong there Atila it was Marcus Garvey. Bob Marley appropriated the words into the song War.

[mockney piers]

indeed it was, did that myself a couple of times. It wasn't so easy in the snow though.

When were you there? And let me guess, politics and criminology with a biophysics subsid?

[snorky]

IM sorry, but that would be giving the game away & maybe my anonimity but I have a life long hatred of Ezra Pound

*too much infiormation actually*

[mockney piers]

snorky Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> IM sorry, but that would be giving the game away &

> maybe my anonimity

Still avoiding those pesky students loans people huh? ;-)