Martin Linton MP

[MadWorld74]

...is in Northcote Road tonight on the BBC London News, talking to local residents about saving the independant retail outlets. Many high street chains have appeared in Northcote Road, pushing out the indies. Sound familiar? Martin Linton wants the help of local govt to step in to set up measures to prevent such loses. Should we invite him to the Lane to have a look? We can only wait to see what appears on LL next...

[PeckhamRose]

The question is: is it right to legislate against market forces?

If no-one read the Sun / shopped at Tescos / drank at Starbucks etc they'd go away.

[puts lid from opened can of worms into recycling bin and runnnnnnnnnnnnssssss]

[mockney piers]

I'm with Rose on this one. No business of MPs or councils is it? If ruthless practices are being used then surely a matter for the police or the courts.

[????]

I tell you what would really help drive out the independents and bring in the chains - PARKING RESTRICTIONS in SE22

*remains firmly on high horse

[lozzyloz]

We need more chains on LL. Like a big GAP, McDonalds, Top Shop and Comet. The independents could set up permanent stalls on Goose Green and Northcross Rd dressed in pre 1990 costume. How quaint would that be. Just think of the tourism bucks.

[scor46]

Rents have tripled in the last 3 years, an average single unit on Lordship Lane in 2005 was roughly 10-15kpa, now the same units are fetching 30-40kpa. More and more independents on the Lane will go out of business at the next review. The next 2 years will again see a huge change to the area. The freeholders are not just after higher rents, they are also after better covenant. Better covenant equates to greater freehold value. Out go the independents in come the National chains. Market forces I?m afraid, the only way you can stop it is to cap the rents and that is not going to happen. RICS should have scrapped years ago and its directors put in prison for the things they have allowed to happen in this Country.

Residential property prices have also risen exponentially as a direct result of what has happened on the Lane. So which way do you really want it? Personally I would go and tell Mr Linton to go and stick it, but then I?ve always been a bit of a selfish Northern lad..

[Brendan]

The RICS is a members? body run by an elected council who make all the major decisions. The council is made up of whoever the good old boys in upper management of the major property and construction firms put forward.

[macroban]

If I remember the last recession (c1978-1982) properly, rent reviews were set aside, adveristed rents were subject to deep discounts on negotiation, and freeholders offered new leasholders rent holidays rather than bear the costs of vacant properties.

[????]

Were you elsewhere for the 1991 recession then macro?

[macroban]

1991 was ~NOT~ a recession, merely a little dip.

[????]

er, two quarters of negative economic growth is a recession according to most economists, and most economists call 1991 a recession, if you have your own definition please do tell....not as severe as the 80s one but a recession nevertheless

[macroban]

Most economists are wrong.

Next time you're out shopping pop in to one of the few remaining local businesses that survived 1978-1982 and have a chat about what a real recession is like.

[lozzyloz]

78-82 is 'The Great Recession' and 90-91 is 'The recession'. Will this one be 'The Mother of all recessions?'

[snorky]

he is a publicity seeking lickspittle parasite scumbag . dont listen to whatever sop he is coming out with.

if you buy the shite that is sold on LL in the little tat shops, then you will push up rents/ leases

Emporiums selling "gifts" and the the like have a higher margin that greengrocers etc and will move into the spaces vacated by departing low margin / high turnover of stock outlets

If you want to keep the place "local" then dont patronise the cookwank/bonas/moos of this world. Its irrelevant whether they are chains or not in many ways - the "chain" terminology is somewhat of a distraction from the real problem

the answer is in our own hands, whether we want to organise and do something about it is another matter.

You can make your feelings felt and drive them out or you can keep popping in and fuilling their pockeys and your mantelpiece

Still, we can bleat on boards and feel weve done our best

[macroban]

snorky:

What markup do you think the gift shops have?

lozzyloz:

1978-1982 is perhaps not a good overall analogue for Spring 2008 (except for commercial rents). The data seem to be shaping up like 1947-1954 with the added complication of leverage.

MacRoban

[snorky]

maybe I exaggetre the case with the physical markup as Im a bit out of touch with Covent garden wholsale rates atm , but with fresh goods it has to be sold or is worthless within a very limited timescale - you can store tat for years

though that maybe isnt very good business

[macroban]

Just a clarification:

Even I'm not old enough to have been in busineess across 1947-1954.

[snorky]

I wouldnt worry about a recession - not a bad un for the UK anyway - its cheap filler for the press off the abck of the housing prices boom - i prostiutte myself in the black heart of global capitalism and have resigned faith in the nature of the beast to sort things out .sadly.

[Asset]

Snorky, the cookwank shop (I assume you mean Green Cuisine) and Moo two are both "local" shops. Just because they don't sell things you want doesn't mean they don't sell useful stuff. Personally I think Green Cuisine is a good shop and I have no objection to Moo two. If people want to but Marrimeko baby gros why shouldn't they? Frankly I think it's pretty cool that we can buy that shit locally if we want it.

[scor46]

Snorky, I think I want to agree with you but I'm still not sure what I'm agreeing to. You cant stop what id happening on the Lane and the shops that sell 'tat' will survive only is the public demand is there.

Question- would anyone really object to having a M&S foodhall on the Lane if they ever opened one up?

[Brendan]

Yeah me. I can never find anything I like in M&S foodhalls. Spent ages walking around the one at london bridge the other day and left hungry. they dont' sell kebabs, guinness, jack daniels...

[david_carnell]

Object? As in protest? Probably not, no. But I would be saddened somewhat.

Despite being seen as an "up-market" choice M&S is no better or worse than any other supermarket. Their presence would increase traffic flow both through deliveries and shoppers; supermarkets by their nature are bad for producers as they buy in bulk at fixed costs allowing little room for manouever when wholesale prices shift on something like grain; M&S are especially woeful when it comes to packaging with fresh fruits and veg overly packaged causing untold environmental damage in both production and disposal.

I'm not honestly sure they would really do so well. The economic group that could afford their product is already incredibly well-catered for along the Lane and in NX Rd. The only difference would be you have to go to more than one shop and queue each time. Oh, and Dervla Kirwin doesn't do voiceovers for William Rose.

"This isn't just meat. This is organic, free range, farm-assured, Gloucester Old Spot pork from William Rose."

[lozzyloz]

1978-1982 is perhaps not a good overall analogue for Spring 2008 (except for commercial rents). The data seem to be shaping up like 1947-1954 with the added complication of leverage.

I'm sure there's an interesting point in there somewhere. Can you add a little more to illustrate it? What data and what do you mean by leverage?

[HonaloochieB]

I wouldn't object to an M & S foodhall, but only if they had a daily gallery of cheapness to sell off the almost out of date grub.

Although if it's a choice between that and a Wimpy bar...

[spadetownboy]

Brendan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Yeah me. I can never find anything I like in M&S

> foodhalls. Spent ages walking around the one at

> london bridge the other day and left hungry. they

> dont' sell kebabs, guinness, jack daniels...

and its bloody expensive as well.