today's protest

[celineblondon]

As expected, the protest is going well in Paris today. Looks like one member of the "Green" party tried to get hold of the torch within minutes of the starting point.

It is travelling in a bus right now.

BTW, MOST people do not and will not condemn athletes for competing. I can't believe any country will want to pull out of the games . (Boycotting the opening ceremony should not affect the games themselves)

I am sure most athletes also understand why protesters are doing what they are doing. I would hope so anyway.

It is a unqiue occasion to embarass the party, and bring about positive change. Is it really going to happen? Who knows, we will not know if we do not try.

If the rumours of disagreement within the CCP are true, if the news in China actually report the protests (!), well, something is definetly not quite the same in china...

[mockney piers]

Sporting boycotts have had success in the past and were arguably more potent against apartheid than the half-hearted economic boycotts, but I can't see it having much of an effect on China, it'll all end up as a real embarrassment for the CCP but thye'll soldier on regardless.

As Snorks said, you can highlight the indentured (often child) labour that makes the ?1.99 t-shirts too good to be true all you want, but Primark still seem to be making a healthy profit. Likewise China thrives thanks to the the desire for cheap labour, many of it from the big consumer manufacturers who rushed to open factories there over the last decade.

Continued growth (here) through spending relies on two things, cheap goods (through cheap labour) and cheap available credit. The latter ain't going to happen much for a little while and the former will suffer in years to come as pressure on the dollar (down) and the yuan (up) as well as improved standards of living means even China is going to have to start looking elsewhere.

It all feels a bit unsustainable if you ask me.

An olympic boycott by Britain may send out a strong political message, but it'll make absolutely no difference to our final medal tally ;-)

[SeanMacGabhann]

All that being true tho' do we as a society just shrug or do we keep pushing the point home until the situation changes?

Isn't the maxim "power is always taken it is never given" as true as ever? Would women have the vote or would the original slave trade have been abolished if we adopted a similar stance?

[giggirl]

The torch debacle is being described as a "PR Disaster" on TV today, which, TBH is the best result possible. Whilst the games themselves are of no interest to me, I have no wish to destroy the dreams of the athletes taking part.

[mockney piers]

I don't think that's a societal stance as such, I think people are basically happy to have a march but will still take advantage of the cheap goods from dodgy working practices and/or iffy regimes.

Sure keep pushing the point home, I'd encourage people to shrug less often and think more about how you spend your money. Or shrug and don't.

[david_carnell]

mockney piers Wrote:

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> An olympic boycott by Britain may send out a

> strong political message, but it'll make

> absolutely no difference to our final medal tally

> ;-)

Bloody cheek.

2004 Olympics

GB - Gold 9 Silver 9 Bronze 12

Esp - Gold 3 Silver 11 Bronze 5

Ever the bridesmaid, eh Piers?! Spain seem to do rather well at the rather disperate likes of canoeing, cycling and gymnastics.

On a more serious note, I find myself agreeing with Snorky (oh god) that if you really cared about what was going on in Tibet the first place to look would be to turn your keyboard over and check where it's made. Our insatiable appetite for cheap consumer products is the pertinent issue in boycotting China not ruining athletes careers. PR disasters are all very well but by the time the games come around I have a feeling it'll all seem like the distant past.

[snorky]

david_carnell Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> mockney piers Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > An olympic boycott by Britain may send out a

> > strong political message, but it'll make

> > absolutely no difference to our final medal

> tally

> > ;-)

>

> Bloody cheek.

>

> 2004 Olympics

> GB - Gold 9 Silver 9 Bronze 12

> Esp - Gold 3 Silver 11 Bronze 5

>

> Ever the bridesmaid, eh Piers?! Spain seem to do

> rather well at the rather disperate likes of

> canoeing, cycling and gymnastics.

>

> On a more serious note, I find myself agreeing

> with Snorky (oh god) that if you really cared

> about what was going on in Tibet the first place

> to look would be to turn your keyboard over and

> check where it's made. Our insatiable appetite for

> cheap consumer products is the pertinent issue in

> boycotting China not ruining athletes careers. PR

> disasters are all very well but by the time the

> games come around I have a feeling it'll all seem

> like the distant past.

"Product of China"

[celineblondon]

As well as being probably impossible, boycotting Chinese products would not only affect the Chinese government, but also thousands of Chinese who are hard workers and have nothing to do with the terrible human right records in China.

MMMmmmm

Difficult one really

[Cassius]

Assembled in Malaysia.

[mockney piers]

"Made in China"

ever the issue with boycotts Celine, a toughy indeed.

[Keef]

Michael Palaeologus Wrote:

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> Hypocrisy as ever rules and Burma, Zim, Tibet and so on will suffer as long as they have nothing to "offer". This is the odious side of real-politik. Sadly I fear that after the Olympics the media will lose interest and Tibet will disappear off

the radar scope for most people.

Spot on Mike! It's not like the Tibet situation is new, and no one has given a toss for a long time!

[giggirl]

Keef Wrote:

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It's not like the Tibet situation is new, and no one has given a toss for a long time!

Yes Keef it's not new and it has been going on for a long time but people have given a toss and do give a toss. Because it is "old news" is it therefore wrong to draw attention to the problems of Tibet whilst the eyes of the world are focused on China?

[Keef]

No I didn't say that for a second! And you're taking my "no one has given a toss" ever so slightly literally there do you not think? I just can't stand this moral outrage from people who really couldn't care less when no one is looking.

[willow]

Almost a side issue but on the same subject, Tessa Jowell if you're reading this, as one of your constituents, please could you tell me who those men in blue were and why the metropolitan police seemed to be taking directions from them? As Olympics minister I'm sure you'll be able to tell us.

Also, I thought many people were protesting yesterday at China's appauling human rights record generally, not just in relation to Tibet. There were Dafur protesters there too yesterday but they haven't received as much, if any, coverage because it's not the issue of the day.

[Keef]

Yeah I think it was meant to be more general human Rights, but Tibet has had headlines recently, so the press jump on it.

[celineblondon]

Not that the press jumped on it... The protest is fundamentaly against human right abuses as a whole in China - whether it is tibetans, what is happening in Darfour, people having their organs forcibly removed, people being sentenced to death without a proper trial... and so on

But there were definetly more tibetan flags out there than others.... that's a fact

Even though there were of course also a great deal of banners denouncing human rights as a whole

I guess people in general indentifies themselves with what they know more and they probbaly know more about the Tibet issue.

And you can't help having a lot of sympathy for the Tibetans, since their views and religion are beautiful and inspiring.

Somehow it feels even worse to see their culture dying away. Like if the world as a whole is losing something...that it desperatly needs

[Keef]

celineblondon Wrote:

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> since their views and religion are

> beautiful and inspiring.

> Somehow it feels even worse to see their culture

> dying away. Like if the world as a whole is losing

> something...that it desperatly needs

Agreed.

[mockney piers]

Here you go Keef, this should explain everything.

http://decentpedia.blogspot.com/2008/03/tibet.html

[Jah Lush]

Ha ha! That's hilarious Sir Piers of Mockney! Where do you find this stuff?

[mockney piers]

I've been a fan of his for quite some time.

His latest is even better

http://decentpedia.blogspot.com/2008/04/cough-cough-mumble.html