Pronunciation guide

[Izodia]

I once spent a delightful evening with a Mancunian friend shouting b*stard at each other to try and decide whether it was harsher in a northern or southern accent. Unfortunately we couldn't reach a decision...

[david_carnell]

LuvPeckham Wrote:

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> david_carnell - just to say that it has always

> been Mumbai, the British changed it to Bombay when

> we colonised Indiah (I have spelt it phonetically

> not incorrectly)

Well if we're being picky it was the Portuguese who gave in the name Bombaim or Bombahai meaning good-bay or little-bay. We then anglacised to Bombay. Still, it was like that from the 16th century so why bother changing it now? Should I still be living in celtic Plowonidonjon rather than latin London? Just seems a bit silly to go around changing all the names back to pre-colonial versions.

[KalamityKel]

oooo I can't stand those who say Bastid rather than barstard

Similiarly only men can get away using the "c" word without it sounding gobby and dare I say it "chavvy" (no not meaning u chav or suggesting Annaj would sound common... darn I fink I'm about to dig a hole!)

[lozzyloz]

How do you pronounce King Knut?

[Brendan]

david_carnell Wrote:

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> Well if we're being picky it was the Portuguese

> who gave in the name Bombaim or Bombahai meaning

> good-bay or little-bay. We then anglacised to

> Bombay. Still, it was like that from the 16th

> century so why bother changing it now? Should I

> still be living in celtic Plowonidonjon rather

> than latin London? Just seems a bit silly to go

> around changing all the names back to pre-colonial

> versions.

I think you are completely missing the point there. It has to do with what the population wants to call it. If the population wants to call it Mumbai then so be it. Whatever their reasons are is their business. Someone in England (unless of course you have some vested interest) has no place even having an opinion.

Now if somebody made a proposal to change the name of London you would have every right to call it silly.

[bignumber5]

KalamityKel Wrote:

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> Similiarly only men can get away using the "c"

> word without it sounding gobby and dare I say it

> "chavvy" (no not meaning u chav or suggesting

> Annaj would sound common... darn I fink I'm about

> to dig a hole!)

Annaj is on nights so not able to defend herself on this count due to being asleep, but she'd probably agree that it doesn't sound awfully ladylike if thrown around here, there and everywhere - when she gives it it's well timed, annual outing, it just makes me giggle like a schoolboy!

On the place names front, not sure where we can really sit comfortably, since we don't pronounce place names properly in most cases - surely the correct way to pronounce any place name is the way that the people from it say it, so Paris, France etc are always pronounced wrong and should in fact be par-ee and fraanz respectively. But how much of a pretentious carrot ;-) do you sound if you do that?!

[wee quinnie]

Brendan Wrote:

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> david_carnell Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > Well if we're being picky it was the Portuguese

> > who gave in the name Bombaim or Bombahai

> meaning

> > good-bay or little-bay. We then anglacised to

> > Bombay. Still, it was like that from the 16th

> > century so why bother changing it now? Should I

> > still be living in celtic Plowonidonjon rather

> > than latin London? Just seems a bit silly to go

> > around changing all the names back to

> pre-colonial

> > versions.

>

> I think you are completely missing the point

> there. It has to do with what the population wants

> to call it. If the population wants to call it

> Mumbai then so be it. Whatever their reasons are

> is their business. Someone in England (unless of

> course you have some vested interest) has no place

> even having an opinion.

>

> Now if somebody made a proposal to change the name

> of London you would have every right to call it

> silly.

And while we're on the subject, what about DerrystrokeLondonderry?

[david_carnell]

True, true, Brendan.

But like Bignumber5 says, we had better start referring to Pa-ree and Deutschland if we're following the locals example. I wasn't suggesting the inhabitants of Mumbai or Beijing can't call their cities what they like (of course they can) - but it doesn't mean we have to change our anglicised versions as well does it?

[mightyroar]

by the way, I think its noo ga

2 that perplex me are garage

gaa-ridge or gah raj ?

and Canal. I like to pronounce it so it rhymes with anal.

[bon3yard]

Canute lozzyloz.

[mockney piers]

great discussion, to add to Nero's original point i read this post by a linguist last month on hyperforeignism

And I say 'bowling' very weirdly

[KalamityKel]

like my fruit bowls mp?

[lozzyloz]

Easy bon3yard!

I have a mental block on intestine. Comes out as Inter-styne.

[lofty]

My boss says 'chimley' rather than 'chimney'....lol

[Keef]

Er, I did that for years :-$

[KalamityKel]

me too :-$ but it sounded more like chimenlys

[lofty]

Problem is my boss is in his mid 40's...about time I told him me thinks.

[LuvPeckham]

SCONES ??

now there is a word to debate, and to top it - Cream first or Jam first ?

[david_carnell]

Oh god Mockney, that site (and ones that it links to) are going to keep me distracted for ages. Sad, I know, but I love this stuff.

As for my own embaressment I have a habit of calling an umbrella an um-ber-rella and saying Mon-dee, Tues-dee etc rather than Mon-day, Tues-day etc

[Keef]

Jam!!!!! And it's scOnes, like stones. Not bloody scon, there's an e for a reason!

[KalamityKel]

ons not owns - in reference to scones

[Nero]

David,

I'd agree with you about it being alright having our own version of Beijing if the j sound in English was routinely pronounced as a zh, but it isn't. With that being the case, the pronunciation is just wrong, if you ahks me.

[david_carnell]

Hehe, this is becoming a right hornets nest.

Scones is or course(!) :-S rhyming with cones. Takes the s off of scones and you have cones - therefore s-cones.

Back to the whole Pei-ping, Peiking, Bay-zhing, Beijing thing - Mockneys post relates to something called hyperforeignism where we give foreign place names unnecessary exotic pronounciation. They use cache and cachet as the prime example.

Are we to pronounce foreign words how the are pronounced in their natural tongue or have an anglacised version? We can of course pronounce Beijing with a hard 'j' (as in Cajun or Fiji) quite easily yet insist on the 'zh' sound as it's a foreign place and therefore must sound romantic with a French sounding 'j'. all very confusing. Hence, let us Brits stick to Bombay, Peiking, Paris etc and not resort to silly foreign accents when trying to say these names ;-)

[SimonM]

>>Jam!!!!! And it's scOnes, like stones. Not bloody scon, there's an e for a reason!:D

[spadetownboy]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> when Irish players came to England and I suddenly

> had to get used to, for example Kevin Moran

> (pronounced Morean - emphasis on 1st syllable)

> became Kevin Moh-RAN according to English

> commentators... such as John Moh-Tzan

>

> still annoys me

on the same subject it still pisses me off when they refer to paul mcgrath as paul mcgraTH, with emphasis on the th. its not mcgraTH, its just plain paul mcgra, silent th.