New trains ED-London Bridge

[Boscombe]

So we have new trains, which are great. But does anyone know if they will permanently be 5 carriages instead of the old 8 carriages? Because it does rather take the shine off them when you suddenly can't get a seat!

[CPR Dave]

They stop in the wrong place too!

[embracefinancial]

On Monday they said they will be 5 carriages until at least September. Not sure what the plan is then.

[KidKruger]

I guess this is the basis for those problems a couple of weeks ago where previously used trains (of 8 carriages ?) were suddenly 'too long' and some new kit on the platform didn't align properly to the train any more.

Unless it's for safety reasons, reduction to almost half the carriages, when services have been reduced already, would seem to serve not the public demand but some other purpose.

[EDguy89]

https://paulbigland.blog/2022/03/10/the-end-of-the-line-beckons-southerns-br-built-class-455s/

They've retired the older trains that normally come through ED. My general opinion is that Southern just didn't adequately prepare for the retirement of their old models by making sure they have sufficient carriages of the replacements.

Prior to the new trains, I would always walk to the end of the platform because the carriages were less populated and there was much more room. Even a few weeks back when there were issues at ED station with the whole "Front 7 carriages only" the 8th still opened up and functioned as it normally would. So why that happened, I have no idea.

If it were a matter of retiring the older trains for the sake of the environment I'd be fine with the reduced number of carriages. I don't think that's the case, though...

[ianr]

KidKruger wrote:

----------------

> I guess this is the basis for those

> problems a couple of weeks ago where

> previously used trains (of 8 carriages ?)

> were suddenly 'too long' and some new

> kit on the platform didn't align

> properly to the train any more.

Not so. The 'new' Class 377 8-car train I saw on 5 May ( https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,2274773,2275529#msg-2275529 ) coped fine. I suspect the trouble was something like an overlooked small software detail that just needed a tweak.

More from Southern about the current service and the newer stock at https://www.southernrailway.com/travel-information/plan-your-journey/latest-on-our-rail-service. "Unlike the old trains, these trains provide air-conditioning, 2X2 seating and accessible toilets. A ?55m upgrade is currently underway to install at-seat power, better information systems and further improve reliability."

[KidKruger]

👍🏼

[Sue]

What is 2x2 seating? Aren't train seats always in twos? Have I missed something here?

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

I think some are 3x2...

[Bic Basher]

The old trains has 3x2 as well.

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

The old trains were always a bit sad and savvy, but at least you could open the windows on them...

[Spartacus]

ianr Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> KidKruger wrote:

> ----------------

> > I guess this is the basis for those

> > problems a couple of weeks ago where

> > previously used trains (of 8 carriages ?)

> > were suddenly 'too long' and some new

> > kit on the platform didn't align

> > properly to the train any more.

>

> Not so. The 'new' Class 377 8-car train I saw on 5

> May (

> https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?

> 5,2274773,2275529#msg-2275529 ) coped fine. I

> suspect the trouble was something like an

> overlooked small software detail that just needed

> a tweak.

>

> More from Southern about the current service and

> the newer stock at

> https://www.southernrailway.com/travel-information

> /plan-your-journey/latest-on-our-rail-service.

> "Unlike the old trains, these trains provide

> air-conditioning, 2X2 seating and accessible

> toilets. A ?55m upgrade is currently underway to

> install at-seat power, better information systems

> and further improve reliability."

Your post reminded me of a bus driver on the route 11 when, 18 years ago, they introduced the new titan class bus to the route which had tannoy systems for the first time.

He spent the whole journey telling all the passengers about the bus what it was capable of, it was like he was reading the sales brochure 😆

[Castleton]

Dogkennelhillbilly Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The old trains were always a bit sad and savvy,

> but at least you could open the windows on them...

This is my bugbear! At the very least, all train doors should open at every stop. Ventilation

[Dogkennelhillbilly]

Spartacus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> He spent the whole journey telling all the

> passengers about the bus what it was capable of,

Seeing as I've already contaminated this thread with moaning: this is my bugbear at tube stations. I keep wanting to tell the platform dispatchers "just because you have a mic, it doesn't mean you need to gamble into it constantly...". But there, unlike here, I keep my unwanted opinions to myself.

[Boscombe]

I know what you mean. I was waiting to board one as it pulled into LB last night. When the doors opened I was hit by some slightly warm, slightly unfresh air rolling out of the carriage. Bleurgh.

[woodstock]

Whilst the new rains might be smart and more comfortable (assuming you are not travelling at peak time and therefore crowded into the shorter train), does anyone have any idea when/if we are going to get at least 4 trains an hour? I am sure it is too much to hope for the return of 6 trains an hour that we had before the London Bridge upgrade?

[sspringer]

Not sure we will ever get back to 6 per hour because ever since the upgrade at London bridge the traffic through to Charing Cross has been prioritised and also there are frequent hold-ups at points incoming to platforms 13, 14 and 15.

[CPR Dave]

These new ones seem to have a first class carriage so for people using contactless they really only have four carriages.

[Bic Basher]

CPR Dave Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> These new ones seem to have a first class carriage

> so for people using contactless they really only

> have four carriages.

They're declassified, so anyone can sit in those seats.

[CPR Dave]

Really ? There is a sign in the carriage saying if you could can buy a first class paper ticket at the station you board from and you don't buy a that ticket you will be fined.

[OutOfFocus]

https://www.southernrailway.com/tickets/ticket-types-explained/first-class

Confirms it is declassified . Bit in bold ia relevant.

CPR Dave Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Really ? There is a sign in the carriage saying if

> you could can buy a first class paper ticket at

> the station you board from and you don't buy a

> that ticket you will be fined.

[OutOfFocus]

.. duplicate

[Bic Basher]

I believe the Thameslink trains that run out of Herne Hill are also declassified. They were before the new trains were introduced.

[KateFord]

This is news to me. Can someone confirm this as I often stand in the 1st class carriage instead of sitting (because it?s so packed in the morning) cos I thought you?d get fined.

[ianr]

Bic Basher wrote:

----------------

> I believe the Thameslink trains that run

> out of Herne Hill are also declassified.

> They were before the new trains were introduced.

The page linked to above by OutOfFocus says: "On routes served by Thameslink trains, first class accommodation can be found at the very front of the train. The first class compartment at the rear of Thameslink trains is always declassified."

It also includes the Beckenham Junction and London line under the heading "Routes with standard class only operate between;". I take that as authoritative enough indication that no first class fares can or will be sought on that line.