Madeleine McCann

[Santerme]

Otta Wrote:

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> As I see it there are several different issues

> here.

>

> 1. Are the parents at least partly to blame? IMO

> Yes. When you have small kids you don't leave them

> alone unless you're a moron, and it is neglect of

> the worst kind. It is possible the child would

> have been snatched at another time, but don't make

> it bloody east FFS!

>

> 2. Should the parents be punished for it? They

> have been in the worst possible way, they have

> lost a daughter.

>

> 3. Is Sue like a dog with a bone? Yes

>

> 4. Does DJKQ love any opportunity to row with Sue?

> Yes

>

> 5. Can either of them just rise above it and not

> have the last word? Hell No!

Neat summary

[Mick Mac]

Parents partly to blame ...No.

If a shopkeeper looks away and a kid spots this and steals sweets is the shopkeeper partly to blame. Of course not.

Poor parenting maybe but "to blame"....certainly not.

[DJKillaQueen]

Hmm, Santerme, Otta.....I've made a total of three posts on this thread (four with this one) all relevant to the topic........not sure how that makes me anything but restrained tbh ;)

[Annette Curtain]

UncleBen Wrote:

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> Yes.

You're a t-wat.

[UncleBen]

But Otta isn't. Hmmm. Try reading the thread.

[Annette Curtain]

I've read the thread.

You're still a t-wat.

[UncleBen]

Glad to see you care about the missing child.

[Annette Curtain]

Child YES

Your clumsy thread NO

[Otta]

Mick, if the shopkeeper leaves his shop for a few minutes and a load of kids run in and steal all the sweets, then yes, he's partly to blame. They didn't just look away for a moment.

[LondonMix]

It's like saying that if you left your house unlocked and you were burgled you are partially to blame. You aren't. You might have been foolish (though in lots of parts of the world people don't lock their doors mind you) but never to blame. 100% of the blame always lies with the criminal. No one has the right to take your possessions, much less your children, no matter what you do. Moreover, kidnapping by a stranger is thank goodness very rare. Its hardly a likely outcome of leaving your kids asleep in a hotel room.

[El Pibe]

I guess if it was kidnapping then that's right.

If they wandered out and drowned or whatever sue is alleging then it's more akin to leaving a loaded handgun in an unlocked drawer, in which case the blame is certainly there.

Not that I have any inkling of what happened, or care, just refining the simile ;)

[LondonMix]

Oh, is that what Sue is alleging happened? I've never quite understood what she was trying to say.

Either way, playing the blame game in these circumstances seems besides the point. Though, even if it was the pool, I had a pool growing up in the US and I certainly knew how to open the patio door at that age. Some times tragedies happen which is unsettling but when I think of the freedoms I had as a child, I realise most of you lot would have called social services.

From 10, I had my own key to the house and walked home from school and was home alone until Mom got home from work. From age 6 when visiting my grandparents in the country, they would let me walk miles from farm to farm with the other kids (some times sending my for errands for eggs etc to the neighbouring farm). Maybe we were just a different breed but given that overall society is supposed to have become safer regarding crime statically, why is everyone so much more afraid?

[El Pibe]

The Daily Mail

[Sue]

LondonMix Wrote:

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> Oh, is that what Sue is alleging happened? I've

> never quite understood what she was trying to say.

>

>

xxxxxxxx

Let's be clear, I am not "alleging" anything.

Like everybody else who doesn't have access to all the evidence which two police forces now have access to, all I know is the information from the Portuguese police files (and some other "official" evidence) which has been released into the public domain.

For very obvious reasons, not all that information has been released!

Websites like the one I and Stacy-Lyn (spelling?) linked to previously in the thread will give you that information. However the vast majority of people, quite understandably, cannot be bothered to wade through all that!!

It is quite possible - indeed, probable - that information will come to light which sheds a completely different perspective on things than the one I have built up.

All I can say is that from what I have read - not in the press, not from other media, not from articles based on press releases from the McCanns' "spokesman" - but from information released by the police themselves - I will be astounded (but of course delighted) if Madeleine McCann is found alive.

And as a grandmother, whatever happened to her it breaks my heart that three little children were (apparently) left alone night after night in that way.

It wasn't a hotel room, it was an apartment which was (if memory serves) outside the main complex, adjacent to a road.

A ten-year-old or even a six-year-old is very different to a not-yet-four-year old left to babysit her two younger siblings, LondonMix.

ETA: My younger granddaughter is four. The thought of leaving her in that situation just makes my mind boggle, frankly. She has no concept of danger whatsoever, just a need to run, climb, make huge leaps across furniture and play with whatever is available, toy or not.

[LondonMix]

I don't know enough about the case to get into it.

My point concerns blaming the victim of a crime in general and how our perceptions of risky parenting have shifted. I, like everyone else, hope that Madeline is okay and will be returned to her parents and I really don't have anything more to say about this specific family.

[UncleBen]

I see the Met police are now going to investigate this. Too little too late? Should we also be paying for this, shouldn't the Portugese?

[woodrot]

i will admit to this and turn myself in at Scotland Yard if it will put an end to this fucking thread.

[Voyageur]

woodrot Wrote:

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> i will admit to this and turn myself in at

> Scotland Yard if it will put an end to this @#$%&

> thread.

Like!!!!

[Annette Curtain]

woodrot Wrote:

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> i will admit to this and turn myself in at

> Scotland Yard if it will put an end to this @#$%&

> thread.

2 points here

1 The OP thinks he's on some public service crusade

2 The OP is a CU next tuesday

(I feel your pain tho woodrot)

[SCSB79]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> Parents partly to blame ...No.

>

> If a shopkeeper looks away and a kid spots this

> and steals sweets is the shopkeeper partly to

> blame. Of course not.

>

> Poor parenting maybe but "to blame"....certainly

> not.

You post some amout of tosh, but this takes the bsicuit.

[woodrot]

Public servce announcement:

Just bumping this to make it easier to find for the resultant flood of bile spattered and spittle flecked green inked posts expected later today

[Mick Mac]

Thanks for the head up:

http://news.sky.com/story/1111554/madeleine-mccann-new-uk-police-investigation

[david_carnell]

Naughty Snorky.

[unlurked]

Crimewatch tonight

[*Bob*]

One of the new e-fit faces looks kinda familiar...