Dangerous Drivers

[binary_star]

LadyDeliah Wrote:

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> Dick cyclists are annoying, dick motorists are dangerous.

Exactly. Most dick cyclists are not dangerous. Use any parameter you like to measure 'danger' - limb loss, death, paralysis (just being pissed off doesn't count btw). By comparison, cyclists cause very few of these. Let's use death because a serious risk of dying seems like a good way to measure danger to me and mortality rates are easy to find.

This spreadsheet collates a massive amount of data from the ONS:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AonYZs4MzlZbdEZBNS1ETG8xT0JBSnR5N3Z6Q0hzNnc#gid=13

Drivers killed in collisions with cyclists isn't a recorded way to die (go figure) but pedestrians killed in such collisions are. In 2007, 6 pedestrians died as a result of colliding with a cycle. 275 died by being hit by a car/van. And 17 people died falling off a cliff. Historically, more people have died from falling off cliffs than being hit by cyclists...it's that dangerous!

If I drive at you and hit you I'll cause more damage than if I cycle at you and hit you, which will cause more damage than if I walk at you and hit you. When you drive a car you HAVE to accept that an accident is going to result in much more damage.

[binary_star]

17 months for this bus driver:

[LadyDeliah]

If anyone else wants to get a good helmet cam, this was recommended to me:

http://www.cyclestore.co.uk/productDetails.asp?productID=57752&categoryID=1115

I have checked to see if there is a way of reporting dangerous driving to the police online, but it seems you would need to attend your local police station to do this. There are name and shame sites online, but I would rather report them to the police so the incidents are recorded in the crime stats :-)

[LadyDeliah]

binary_star Wrote:

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> 17 months for this bus driver:

>

>

OMG, that's appalling. 17 months is a joke. That is at least a s.18 intention to cause GBH, if not attempted murder.

[LadyDeliah]

Even more dangerous drivers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBLPb0LzQnA

Some of these guys should be arrested, but this is what we have to put up with when we commute by bike.

[TillieTrotter]

What's your take on motor bikers? They seem to be getting away with it.

[LadyDeliah]

Some of them are inconsiderate, but I find on the whole they take more care than motorists, probably because they understand what it's like to be vulnerable on the road.

Can't remember any near misses with motorbikes actually, but have had hundreds from badly driven cars, vans, buses and lorries and have been hit about a dozen times.

Pedestrians walking out into the road are pretty scary if there is a lot of traffic, because I could get knocked under a vehicle. If there are no cars then we are both likely to get hurt. My reactions are pretty good though and I cycle ultra defensively, so I can usually judge when someone is about to wander into the road without looking.

Out of all road users, the cars, buses, vans and lorries cause the most problems to other road users.

[StraferJack]

Nice attitude on display here

http://ipayroadtax.com/no-such-thing-as-road-tax/i-knocked-a-cyclist-off-his-bike-i-have-right-of-way-he-doesnt-even-pay-road-tax/

[LadyDeliah]

That is the appalling incident that prompted me to start this thread (not that I'd been thinking about doing it anyway of course, lol).

After all the circular debates on here between motorists and others, I thought the only way to get motorists to begin to understand the impact of their behaviour was to post examples of the everyday problems they cause and the outright hatred exhibited towards cyclists on a daily basis.

I think most motorists have no idea how dangerous these kinds of idiots are so I thought if they actually watch some of the clips, I?m sure they would join us in condemning their behaviour and calling for tougher penalties for dangerous driving, especially where it results in death or injury.

Cyclists seem to have become ?legitimate? targets of hate crimes and in my opinion, this needs to be addressed urgently.

[DJKillaQueen]

That's pretty shocking SJ but luckily the Police got to her before she killed herself smashing into the back of a car she was tailgating at 95mpr that had to brake suddenly!

Motorcylists on the whole are better drivers LD because they require better driving skills than the average motorist and because they are aware of the risks associated with making a mistake on their vehicles. Motorcyclists are also taught defensive riding skills. Having said that though, there's another type of two wheeled road user, young moped and scooter riders on L plates who take some alarming risks.

As a cyclist though, the vehicles that take the most risks around me tend to be buses. They are especially bad for overtaking in order to pull into a bus stop not far enough ahead to avoid forcing me, the cyclist, to brake. Now that might just be the result of spending a lot of journeys travelling in bus lanes where cars aren't allowed, but all the same, it stands out to me.

[Otta]

"Out of all road users, the cars, buses, vans

and lorries cause the most problems to

other road users"

That could be written "Every road user except cyclists cause problems for cyclists".

[binary_star]

TillieTrotter Wrote:

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> What's your take on motor bikers? They seem to be

> getting away with it.

Getting away with what? You tend to adopt defensive behaviour very quickly when you're a very vulnerable road user (mistakes cost you dearly). Bar the odd close overtake I don't find motorcyclists on the whole to be a hazard to me as a cyclist.

[LadyDeliah]

Otta Wrote:

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> "Out of all road users, the cars, buses, vans

> and lorries cause the most problems to

> other road users"

>

> That could be written "Every road user except

> cyclists cause problems for cyclists".

No, it doesn't include motorcyclists or horses.

[LadyDeliah]

Not a fan of the Daily Wail, but thought this was interesting:

Almost 600 cyclists a year injured after being knocked off by open car doors

In 2011, 594 cyclists were injured after hitting or trying to swerve a car door, up from 468 in 2009

Transport minister Stephen Hammond says drivers must take more care before getting out into the road

Number of people cycling to work is up 17% in a decade

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2291625/600-cyclists-year-injured-knocked-open-car-doors.html

[binary_star]

I got doored once it was very painful and I had a shoulder problem for weeks. My bike was totalled as well. Unfortunately I was a more naive cyclist back then and when the Police offer who was there to witness the ensuing argument (when the driver got out of the car to have a go at me) said: "these things happen" I just left it. He opened a car door into a bike lane to let the passenger out and was 100% at fault.

[LadyDeliah]

Yes, it's happened to me more than once. I always cycle about two foot out from any parked cars for that reason, but you always get some ignorant motorist beeping his horn or shouting for you to get out of their way for them to squeeze past.

This one is pretty bad. A big truck nearly hits a cyclist in his head by cutting accross him:

I've ordered my helmet cam and it should be here in about 2 days. I'm seriously going to start reporting all these dangerous drivers. They need to be told they can't behave like this on the road.

[LadyDeliah]

Driver gets ?35 fine after cyclist dies in collision

THE DEVASTATED family of a 20-year-old cyclist, killed in a horrific crash, have called for tougher punishments after the driver was handed just a ?35 fine.

http://www.solihullnews.net/news/solihull-news/2013/01/17/driver-gets-35-fine-after-cyclist-dies-in-collision-105074-32622442/

[Otta]

What are you calling for LD, all motor vehicles to be taken off the roads? All of these cases (which I have now read) are independent events. Some are outrageous, and some we know nothing about.

You seem to take the stance that if a cyclist is killed or hurt by a car, it must be the driver's fault.

As I said earlier, there are plenty of idiots on both sides, and if an idiot on a bike gets themself killed (as in the accident is their fault), then you can't really blame the driver of the car just because their vehicle was harder.

[LadyDeliah]

This guy got 14 months for killing a cyclist who was wearing hi viz and had lights on a straight road. Cars behind the killer saw the cyclist, but for some reason this guy didn't and ploughed straight into him:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-east-wales-21034918

[TillieTrotter]

@ Binary Star. I was just throwing it into the mix really.

[numbers]

on my commutes to and from work by bicycle I have to say it was pretty much almost ALWAYS other cyclists & pedestrians that were responsible for causing or almost causing an accident due to sheer carelessness, stupidity, arrogance, god knows what.

riding home late from work was worst due to roads being emptier, traffic moving faster and the inevitable idiot cyclist without any reflective clothing or lighting on their bike.

btw am not excusing all car drivers/buses/taxis by any means just giving my experience. I found traffic so slow on my route in to work, that the only time that they really scared me/pissed me off on the roundabout at Vauxhall before I crossed over to Albert Embankment. pedestrians on the other hand, always walking out in front not looking where they were going, other cyclists taking the piss and going through red lights. nightmare.

[DJKillaQueen]

At least drivers have number plates to identify them when things do go wrong......cyclists on the other hand?

[Louisa]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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> At least drivers have number plates to identify

> them when things do go wrong......cyclists on the

> other hand?

Hallelujah! Exactly!

Louisa.

[LadyDeliah]

Otta, these are all examples of dangerous driving, some causing injury or death. I face this every day because I choose to cycle to work for health and other reasons.

I want the perpetrators to be arrested and when convicted, given sentences that reflect the seriousness of the damage they have caused. There needs to be a change in people?s acceptance of hate speech and hate crimes towards cyclists and an acceptance by motorists of their duty to consider all vulnerable road users.

Any of the people clamouring for a crackdown on cyclists, should be making even more noise about cracking down on this kind of behaviour from motorists given their recklessness and seriousness of the damage caused.

I would not be able to accept a driver being given a ?35 fine for killing my 20 year old son. I would want to have him hurt, but we are supposed to be civilised about these things. We are supposed to hand the power to obtain justice for wrongs done to the authorities, but in my opinion, the authorities are woefully failing in regards cyclists.

[DJKillaQueen]

No-one is disagreeing though that those who cause death and injury on the roads should be punished, and severely.

But you are confusing that with some campaign against any driver that overtakes a little close for your liking. Nearly having an accident is not going to get anyone convicted except in serious circumstances. In fact the Police won't be interested in endless compaints about this driver or that driver almost cutting you up or pulling out in front of you, unless there's an accident.